What's next? - ryzom.org forum archive

An archived topic, merged from 52 captures made between 4 January 2007 and 21 June 2008. ryzom.org · Forum index · All captures

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< VCA General - English ~ What's next?

Do you wish to continue?

Yes

[ 69 ] 80%

[ 4 ] 4%

I don't know

[ 13 ] 15%

Total Votes : 86

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:51 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 396

You should read this first if you want to understand what's in this post ;p

This isn't probably the best time ever, but the court decision raises an important question we need to address.

Do we stop there?

Even if a conventional company is winning the bid here, the campaign is still a success. It has made a lot of noise on the Net, it has been covered by mainstream medias, we have found two FOSS investors, we have got the backing of the FSF, 170 K€ of donation pledges have been registered, and – perhaps the most important – we have found we were not alone dreaming having of own our A-Grade MMORPG, our own world.

So, should this vanish into nothingness, only remembered as a failed attempt of a few bearded hippies to buy a game? Or should we seize the opportunity to create a Free Software organization, dedicated to try, and try again, until we succeed? We could try to convince Gameforge to release Ryzom as Free Software. We could try to buy Ryzom again, if Gameforge went to get into the same troubles as Nevrax. We could look for other MMOs out there, and see if there is one meeting our high quality standards, and which we could buy.

If we go that way, we'll have a lot for us. We would have time to prepare, which was the biggest issue here. We would be able to gather money over a long period, and not only pledges. We would also have the experience, the contacts and the credibility we had to earn on our first attempt.

We have to decide quickly, if we want to be able to tell everyone about it now, while the attention is on us. That's why I have setup this poll, with a 24h deadline.

Are we ready for a new challenge?

Last edited by Xavier Antoviaque on Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
Xavier.

BlasterCalm

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:54 pm

Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 78

I'll continue, I think the effort made must not be lost. Ryzom is saved for now, but who knows what the future holds...

Agone

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:05 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 183 Location: près de Lyon

let's do it :)

come on guys, go go go !

_________________
--Agone--

Neije

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:08 pm

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

First thing : to decide which is the new goal ... but yes I would like to continue for a "Ryzom.org"-like.

vernes

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 11

I say keep the engine burning quickly switch the rails before it derails.
I like the idea of a community build game.

I say more steam!
We're heading for a hill and need to get to the other side.

bouncer

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:45 pm

Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 15 Location: Spain

I want to continue too. We will do something because we can and because is the moment.

raptux

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:47 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2

I agree with bouncer. The project is currently in the spotlight, we should do something with it.

dyma

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:47 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

keep that running is the best we can do!

Neije

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

The engine of Ryzom is Free ^^

As I said on the french forum, I would do it in two steps :

1) Try to negociate with Gameforge to free the code.

2) Use the time of those negociations to come up with some bright idea if the first one does not succeed. (e.g. We can create a MMORPG or buy a another one.)

Jetto

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:12 pm

Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 59 Location: France

When I look at PlanetShift and see how hard it is to do something more or less playable I'm a little disappointed if we have to start from scratch.

The second thing is some good MMORPG even very good one (Eve online for me) start to work on Linux (not tested). Maybe this will change when they'll shift to DirectX X.

Added value of a free game isn't so important since as we see play a free game do note mean play for free.

Also if I can do some work for nothing I'm not so much interested in paying to develop test and use my own work.

I think I will realise my pladge as a donation to the FSF.

bouncer

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:20 pm

Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 15 Location: Spain

Neije wrote:

The better choice is to buy the rights of an _already_ existing game. It is finished and playable, has community and is known. To have the engine is good but is not the ending solution. We have the quake 3 engine but we do not have the data. Of course there is openarena, but is FAR from finished and competitors go fast aswell.

The reason why we want to buy the rights of the whole thing and not only the engine is because we already have data, with characters, music, a community and a playable high quality game, and that is the best thing in short time.

What will you do with an engine? Write a new game within the next few months, creating new models, sound, a good new history or based on an already existing game? Where will come money for such goal? Companies with *a lot* of money are puting their blood on making the best game and the most rated list show that are good, but are other good alternatives too. The games in the top most rated games using that same engine will have a big advantage compared to you.

Last edited by bouncer on Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

b1f30

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:22 pm

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 6 Location: USA

Let Gameforge offer the 'official' commercial version that can be only played on 'official anti-hack/anti-cheat servers' which comes with the typical internet fees and what not - but allow a fork of Free Ryzom that people can modify and host themselves.

*shrug*

_________________
Say 'NO' to DRM, software patents, closed source drivers! GPLv3 != extremist!
http://www.binaryfreedom.info - Free as in Software, opinions, articles, HOWTO.
We're always looking for new members who share our view of the 'Real World'.

Neije

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:25 pm

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

I was just answering the previous post ... because as a matter of fact, the Ryzom engine IS free, but nobody really use it. The interesting part in this project was the opportunity to buy all what was build on this engine ... so :

yes yes and yes ; we agree ^^

kyrix

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:30 pm

Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 13

what do u mean the ryzom engine is free?

Aprak

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:34 pm

Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Did I hear Free as in....

FREEE

Count me in boys! Let's do it from scratch if needed DAMMIT! Lets make the best g'dang game ever to have seen the light of day. And this time - lets do it right from start.

In my country there's a saying "If you dance with the devil, you're gonna get tired" (or some shit like that...)

This dream was just way to sweet to just let go, and I'm not prepared to let it... not yet.

_________________
FREEEEEEEEEEEDOM!

/Aprak
http://cea-history.blogspot.com/
http://kato.homelinux.org/~aprak/

b1f30

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:35 pm

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 6 Location: USA

kyrix wrote:

what do u mean the ryzom engine is free?

The NeL engine is GPL - what they used to help make the game.

;)

Matthias

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:35 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

I think the source code of the engine is released under the GPL. I've read it on Wikipedia.

Now to the topic: Of course, we should go on. It would be great to free as much game content as possible. Not only Ryzom or MMORPGs. I don't have much money. But over time, when more and more games get open source, perhaps more developers get attention of our "movement" and release games "open source" after 10 years after publishing it, because they can't make any more money of it. That would be great. So, I'm definitely behind going on this "fight for freedom".

Sorry, for my bad english. ;)

frakel

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:37 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2

I voted yes - as in:
"YES, I still think the idea of a free (as in freedom) mmorpg is intriguing.
YES, I would still be keen on donating a two-digit amount of Euros to the project.
YES, I really hope someone continues campaigning for this".

I didnt vote yes - as in:
"YES, Im gonna actively support this beyond making a donation".

Cheers!

nFriedly

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:56 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Dayton Ohio, USA

My pledge still stands if you can buy another game of similar quality to Ryzom. I Love the idea of freeing a game, but I want it to be something that's complete, high quality, modern, and fun.

[edit]
I added 'modern' after I posted, because that was part of what impressed me about Ryzom: the game ran and looked beautiful on my (decently fast) desktop, and yet it was still enjoyable on my laptop w/ onboard graphics.

_________________
Nathan Friedly

valentin

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:06 pm

Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 23

count me in.

with all this story we now have all what seems necessary to offer a 'gpl migration' to a good quality mmo owner.

we have money, knowhow, the help of the fsf, so chances to succeed in the end are higher than they never were.

a gpl mmo is needed for the free software community, a gpl mmo would allow new ways of doing prohibited by closed software business plans.

so my commitment, including monetary, fully remains.

if you know if a good mmo candidat, please talk them about us, if you are a mmo owner please take contact with us for further discussion if this idea does appeal to you.

valentin lacambre

hook

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:37 pm

Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia, EU

Well ...that's rather unfortunate :?

In any case it was a noble battle and I feel honoured to have contributed the little bit that I could.

If we should continue? Well, the odds are against us, but they were so already before.

But how do we want to proceed, I think, is the important question here. From what I see, there are several options:

I think the option most likely to succeed is buying the license from Gameforge and releasing a fork of Ryzom.

An alternative option would also be to redirect all this creativity into an already existant FOSS MMORPG like PlaneShift or Arkhart.

BTW, is there any chance to see the court's decision?

Cayle

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:50 pm

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 79 Location: Germany

There is no need ot use NeL. Planeshift was built with CrystalSpace. Blender and raw OGRE are also options.

KIAaze

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:16 pm

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 70

Well, if there's an opportunity to free Ryzom again, I certainly don't want to miss it. :)
Now concerning the idea of doing everything from scratch, I don't know...

I heard about the MMORPG Planeshift which is open-source.
I haven't tried it, but it seems to be quite advanced and I agree with their wiew of open-source development:

Quote:

Let us explain our view of the MMORPG scene and of the many developers out there that are trying to build a game.

It all starts when someone has a great idea and he begins to work very hard to obtain what he wants. He will surely look to other games and he will try to build something that is at least decent compared to the current industry standards. The tremendous amount of work needed to create a competitive product will overwhelm him. No one can create a good game without a big and solid team. In the gaming industry there s no place for small projects, they will simply fail for lack of resources, lack of time, lack of money, and mainly lack of commitment. If the project does not progress quickly, the interest of the net-surfers dwindles and with it the morale of the team. With bad team morale, the project slowly dies. Surely he can ask the community of developers to help him, but they will be probably running their own projects, or they want to attach themselves to a winner, not a sinking ship so they will have no time or inclination to really help. The problem is that many people have a good idea in mind for a great game and start to create a new project on a very small scale. They focus on adding the most innovative ideas and content, but this costs a lot in terms of resources. When using this method any small project will ultimately fail.

In the current MMORPG and RPG scene, many projects are very similar. Although different teams tend to build everything in different ways-new rules, new races, new interface, new engine-if you look closely, their final goal is absolutely the same:
a persistent multiplayer fantasy world forming a successful and enjoyable game. This diffusion of talent with common goals among dispersed projects is one of the primary reasons few Open Source projects succeed.

http://www.planeshift.it/pslicense.html

Of course, the problem is that Planeshift's universe is probably different than that of Ryzom...
And I have no idea if it's better to use the Ryzom engine or the one of Planeshift for a MMORPG.

Anyway, since I started using Linux last year, I'm an open-source fan and am willing to help as much as I can.
In the meanwhile, I'll invest my money in wikipedia for "free knowledge". ;)

_________________
Let's save Seed!!!
Runestone's website (the creators of Seed)

Aprak

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:39 pm

Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

P.S. ...voted YES in case that wasn't obvious :D D.S.

*runs back to mindstorming meeting at IRC*

_________________
FREEEEEEEEEEEDOM!

/Aprak
http://cea-history.blogspot.com/
http://kato.homelinux.org/~aprak/

Nepherkaan

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:44 pm

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 130

I was only interested in Ryzom in a free form, not another mmo.
I hope you'll find a new way to make a free mmorpg and i'll keep an eye on your future project and maybe i will come back, later, who knows :?: .

Bye :)

YoNuX

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:47 pm

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Posts: 14 Location: Near a computer

Bad news, but hope is still here.

You can count on me too !!!

Narf

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:07 pm

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 42

Let's wait for now, after that we could change the name of the non profit organisation.
If this time ever comes, i'd like to keep a reference to Ryzom in the name, for it is the game that made it possible.

vplayer

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

Xavier Antoviaque wrote:

We could look for other MMOs out there, and see if there is one meeting our high quality standards, and which we could buy.

I know it's a long shot, but there is already a game, that could easily fit the whole idea of free MMORPG. It's written in Java so it works under everything. There's only one problem - I have doubts if it will meet this "high quality standards". But I guess we can't have everything at once.

O yes, ther's another issue - money. I really doubt, that 170 000 € is enough...

http://www.runescape.com

doctormo

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:42 pm

Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 22

I agree with Han, starting our own game is not that hard; we would just need to grind at it. we have the publicity to attract developers, artists etc and we already have some aboard.

nonproprietary

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:03 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

I am almost sorry to say something like this:

If there is no chance to get the ryzom code & data for money, are really desperate with the situation and any of you ex-nevrax staff has the app in source (even an older version) on his/her machine. declare that to be renegade free software, tar the thing up and publish it anonymously in the freenet.

http://freenetproject.org/

This is extreme I know. You may say that nobody can use it because its copyright infringement: true. Maybe its a shit idea and I am a bit desperate :(

doctormo

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:10 pm

Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 22

why would we need to do that? NeL is already gpl.

hook

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:34 pm

Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia, EU

doctormo wrote:

I agree with Han, starting our own game is not that hard; we would just need to grind at it. we have the publicity to attract developers, artists etc and we already have some aboard.

It depends on where you start from. In any case unless you get a license (or the full deal), you'd have to do all art, the whole world, all quests, rules, etc. from scratch - which is a hell of a job.

Narf

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:37 pm

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 42

It's baaaaaaad [talking about the nonproprietary post]

RedOctober

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:53 pm

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 8

Keep going, an open source MMO platform is crucial, in my opinion.

hook

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:14 am

Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia, EU

RedOctober wrote:

Keep going, an open source MMO platform is crucial, in my opinion.

As was previously stated there are already FOSS MMO* platforms and engines available ...and if nothing else the NeL engine (which was used for Ryzom) is published under GPL as well.

temujin9

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:00 am

Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

Xavier Antoviaque wrote:

So, should this vanish into nothingness, only remembered as a failed attempt of a few bearded hippies to buy a game? Or should we seize the opportunity to create a Free Software organization, dedicated to try, and try again, until we succeed? We could try to convince Gameforge to release Ryzom as Free Software. We could try to buy Ryzom again, if Gameforge went to get into the same troubles as Nevrax. We could look for other MMOs out there, and see if there is one meeting our high quality standards, and which we could buy.

Another possibility is directing efforts to help Linden Labs open source their Second Life server code. It's been hyped by them for a while now; if this hypothetical Free Game Foundation were to contribute time and money, that hype might become more concrete.

Nathaniel Eliot
T9 Productions

Buzzard

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:19 am

Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 2

I think we should use the Nel engine, and start from scratch.
BUT

I think we should brain storm on a different MMORPG approach. I think we should come up with a more "original" type of game. Something educational, yet fun at the same time. A game with a lot of puzzles. I think we as a community should plan out what we want "exactly", but brainstorming is the key.

Here is my brainstorm on my perfect type of game:
-- A really scary story-line like Resident Evil or something
-- To somehow connect other desktop applications with game -- like minigames
-- And hands-on puzzles like: "How many decimal places in PI is accurately given by 355/113?"
-- A really heavily thought-out story line like the Final Fantasy games
-- I think there should be hand guns in the game, as well as arrows (like in Resident Evil)
-- A LOT of puzzles (like cross word puzzles that comes from knowledge in real life)
-- A lot magical special effects

BlasterCalm

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:05 am

Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 77

Just a note concerning my participation.

For me "going on" means going on with Ryzom and efforts to save it. Gameforge has won this time, but we don't know where Ryzom will be in a few months.

For me it doesn't mean we have to build another game from scratch or using the NEL engine. I see these forums slowly moving in a direction where we speak projects which are, for me, not related at all to Ryzom.

I understand some people here in this community are interested in building something new, but I want to underline it is not the case for every participant.

Xor

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:24 pm

Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 2 Location: NorWay

Just a thought, but wouldnt it be an idea to talk to people that are already making a game, if the pursuit to buy Ryzom is lost?
The people at www.dawntide.net is creating a game from scratch, that they plan to release as donation based. (-lets face it, maintaining and hosting a fairly large game takes time, equipment costs, lease costs, n so on.)
Theyre currently in pre/early Alpha1 phase of releasing it.
The main guy behind DT has a lot of ideas and perspectives thats fairly similar to the spirit of both SoR and this forum.

I just had a computer crash (there was smoke coming outta it..), so my acsess to email/forums isnt exactly stable. thats why I thought it better for someone else to pick up this idea if it seemed as a good one.

Neurot

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:19 pm

Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 1

Hello
i'm a newcomer here but i'm also a former developper on Ryzom ;)

just my 2 cents :

- NeL is indeed open source but this is only the visible part of the iceberg (read : the Ryzom code), the main part of what makes Ryzom well...Ryzom is the game code (in fact there is all the stuff for AI, game rules, server load, player connection etc...) and that code isn't open sourced at all.

- Many companies spent several years developping MMORPGs to finally cancel their developement (Codemasters for exemple), of course it has a LOT to do with rentability - which is not a problem for an open sourced developement - but also with the quite difficult problem of making this kind of game. This is of course still possible :) but it will probably takes years before having a workable game (starting from scratch), so buying an existing game is really time saving.

I do hope ryzom.org will live and that we will one day have an open source A-grade MMO.

Good luck :)

Induane

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:10 pm

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

Greetings,

I'm an art and settings developer for an opensource mmorpg known as Peragro Tempus. Its a fairly new project but already has a working client and server and is cross platform. It also features art licensed Creative Commons so the whole project is very open.

http://peragro.org

:D Ignore my wife on the main page ;)

I am probably speaking in a manner that is self serving in a way but I wouldn't be a dev if I didn't think the project was worthy, and I do believe it is worthy of you're support.

I can be found in #peragro though sueastside and PK are the main devs.

I know that the campaign is looking at opening an already complete game but with its resources it could instead benefit a few open source projects like crystalspace, which Peragro uses as its 3d engine. It also has the benefit of really helping out an open project that already exists instead of creating a new one where none existed before. If the community bands together to create a new great game it looks better - purchasing and open sourcing an already completed game makes it look like the community couldn't build one so they bought one instead. I'd rather see the community design and build one from the ground up.

Thanks,

_________________
- brant watson

valentin

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:15 pm

Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 23

Induane wrote:

sorry, but i couldn't :)

maybe you should post a topic on the "mmo from scratch" forum to elaborate on your crystalspace experience as other teams are there having questions for you.

why did you choose crystalspace, did you evaluate delta3d.org, does it scale, did you use or plan to use planeshift.it netcode or other asset ?

trying to bend together existing teams is shurely one possibility towards our goal, there are so few good libraries and tools to make a mmo that most gpl teams use the same, wich means lots can be shared, as coding but also 3d arts, and most of what is missing from crystalspace to a full mmo.

valentin

Saist

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:23 pm

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3

I caught this announcment through newsforge. If I might make a suggestion for a game to go after, it would be Sony Planetside.

Fact is the current development team has no interest in improving the game, developing the story, or even fixing known issues. It might be possible to approach Sony, offer to buy the content from them, and redeploy Planetside on both Linux and Windows with a development team who actually is interested in fixing bugs.

As is, I believe that Sony already did have a Playstation2 Linux client working around 2003 or 2004, so there may already be code work laid down for porting the game over.

KrYoS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:34 pm

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

Quote:

Fact is the current development team has no interest in improving the game, developing the story, or even fixing known issues. It might be possible to approach Sony, offer to buy the content from them, and redeploy Planetside on both Linux and Windows with a development team who actually is interested in fixing bugs.

As is, I believe that Sony already did have a Playstation2 Linux client working around 2003 or 2004, so there may already be code work laid down for porting the game over.

There lies the problem. Sony is a major company and major player in the online game scene. The chances of them giving up a game of theirs for any amount that could be afforded would be slim to nil. There is no way that could happen, believe me. It is a nice thought don't get me wrong, but Sony has no financial problems or anything like that, so they have no need to sell a franchise of theirs for what they would view as pennies.

Saist

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:05 pm

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3

Actually. Sony's broke and headed for bankruptcy.

As of the final fiscal quarter of 2005 only 2 sections of Sony were posting profits, the LCD/TV manufacturing set and the section of SCE responsible for licensing UMD.

The collapse of the UMD market (the format is no longer offered by most major US, UK, or Japanese retailers), either brought about or helped the collapse of the PSP market.

The financial drain brought about the collapse of the Playstation3 (many major US retailers are reporting that units are in stock, including Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal Mart, Target, and Fry's) hasn't helped Sony's financial situation.

Turning to Planetside specifically, the player base had fallen to the point that back in early 2006 Sony began offering "Reserve" (free limited) accounts. In 2005 the dropping player base had already taken the game to the point that Sony needed ad-revenue in order to support development.

So, yes. I think Planetside is ripe to purchase from Sony. They need the money, they need to dump something, and offering to take off an under-performing game might be tempting enough for them to snap at.

***

btw, if you want more background data on the collapse of Sony I have my market breakdown of the PSP here : http://www.gamenikki.com/g3/features/Jason.php?id=7

and also began a similar dissection on Sony, never completed because I honestly could not keep track of the downward financial spiral or the blunders made by Sony marketing : http://www.fcs-inc.biz/saist/trg/good-bye-sony.pdf

KrYoS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:11 pm

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

Yes Sony may be having financial stability issues. But several years ago, Sony Online Entertainment broke off from Sony as is its own entity now so therefore any troubles Sony is having does not affect Sony Online Entertainment. And unless I'm mistaken on that break apart, which I don't think I am, that means Sony's financial issues have nothing to do with Planetside as that falls under Sony Online Entertainment.

KrYoS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:20 pm

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 50

Before I go on record of opening mouth inserting foot..... Sony Online Entertainment is an LLC as of right now. It is owned by owned by Sony Pictures Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment America. Just grabbed it from their site. But since it is an LLC, it's earnings and such are not needed for any reporting, so its stability is unknown. Even though it is owned by a nationally traded corporation, it's assets do not need to be reported itself. So therefore, just because sony is having a bad year doesn't mean Sony Online Entertainment is. They are actually doing quite well right now in fact. So, again as I say, the thought of purchasing Planetside cheap is out of the question. You have to separate the different entities from each other before you jump to conclusions.

The main division had problems, but not all internal organizations will have problems.

Saist

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:23 pm

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 3

you would probably be mistaken then.

From Sony's website: http://www.station.sony.com/sonyonline/

Quote:

In April of 2006, SOE became Sony Online Entertainment LLC, owned by Sony Pictures Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment America.

That puts SOE under SCEA, which is under SCE, which has not posted any direct game derived or system derived profits for over a year. The only profits that it has directly produced, again, came from UMD licensing and production.

On the other path, it also puts it under Sony Pictures Digitial, which is just under Sony Corporate, which has also not produced any direct profits in several months. The problem, if you want to call it that, is that Sony has collectively laid all of it's eggs in the basket of Blu-Ray, counting on the Playstation3 to push Blu-Ray adoption. The failure of the Playstation3 to sell through Christmas, and the production problems, puts Sony in a tight position. Yes, they may have a few billion banked away. They are, however, going to have to pay the actors, artists, game developers, and everybody else employed under Sony.

Not producing profits is harmful then.

From a business perspective, somebody else stepping in and buying a Property allows Sony to cut the former dev team loose. Granted, in the case of Planetside that is only 2 or 3 people.

aionbr

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:10 am

Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 1

maybe u can purchase ASHERON'S CALL 2.
ASHERONS'S CALL 2 developed by Turbine Entertainment Software, was released on November 22, 2002 and shut down on December 30, 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron's_Call_2
Is a great mmorpg, highly scored, with great reviews:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/asheronscall2fallenkings/index.html
http://pc.ign.com/articles/380/380222p1.html

Buzzard

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:21 am

Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 2

aionbr wrote:

maybe u can purchase ASHERON'S CALL 2.

Wow that sounds really cool! I've never played it but a friend told me about it. He told me how stuff would change all of the time. Like during Christmas there would be snow and snowmen and stuff like that. If it's possible -- then I think that would be an excellent investment for our community.

stryder57

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:30 pm

Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 1

I agree ASHERON'S CALL 2 would be really cool to invest in but I highly doubt Turbine would release the code.
Content for a MMORG always seems to be the limiting factor. I wonder if there would be a way to organize artist and 3D people with a kind of open source like team for making content. They could do it under the creative common type agreement. It would have to be managed well or else you would not have any consistency in the virtual world. Only if I had more free time to do some thing like that.

Tathar

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:06 pm

Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 2

I just heard about this today and would like to recommend an MMORPG to attempt to free. Since it has seen no new content since June 2006, I feel strongly that Horizons: Empire of Istaria would benefit from a buyout.

The reasoning behind my recommendation is that back in June 2006, a company named EI Interactive has bought out this game and has since failed to provide any content for the game. A lot of the players have been angered by this because the buyout came as a shock to both the players and former employees developing for the game. Recently, EI Interactive was bought out by Pixel Magic Entertainment, a move that appears to have been to simply change the name of the company after receiving numerous BBB complaints. I believe that the player base would welcome a buyout or even aid in a bid due to the unique elements that Horizons offers in comparison to other MMOs.

summerdragoness

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:55 pm

Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 2 Location: France

Tathar wrote:

I fully agree with Tathar. Horizons is a great MMO in my opinion. With Tulga as the owner, there was new content, and a growing number of players were suscribing every month.
Since EI Intercactive bought the game, whe have gotten nothing new, except the Euro and test server shutdown. Now most of the elders are gone, but I'm sure most would come back if the game was bought again. And I regularly see newbies on the main server.

I would hate to see my beloved game shut down.

jaimela

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:34 pm

Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 1

I agree with the others, Horizons is worth looking at.

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Tathar

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:30 am

Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 2

I forgot to mention that EI (or PME now, as they seem to call themselves) is very difficult to reach. Your best bet is to reach them on IRC. The official IRC network and channel are irc.stratics.com:6668 and #Horizons. They don't seem to answer emails from anyone and are nowhere to be found on the forums either. You may be lucky and find one of the employees in-game, but I wouldn't try that method unless it's absolutely necessary.

Fridlekh

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:18 am

Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 1

It might also be worth noting that Pixel Magic Entertainment seems to be rapidly disappearing. The website only contains an email contact link now, and no information about the company. Also, the corporation is in default for not filing their list of directors, which was due at the end of last year.

A new entity called New Game World, presumably based in Irvine CA [but not listed with the CA Sec. of State], seems to have taken over all of the assets of EI/PME but they make no mention of Horizons in their projects page.

Chris Baker would probably be the one to talk to, but I don't think that getting ownership of the server tech is going to come cheap or easy... HZ needs a new client built from the ground-up anyway, so not having access to the Granny, Miles, and DPVS libraries might not be so bad.

In the end though, I think it would be better to just use some of the core concepts of HZ that people enjoyed so much and incorporate them into a new world. One with lore :P

Milandra

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:02 am

Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Posts: 4

I agree too with everyone here.
Horizons definitly worth looking at :)

Its community is one of the best I've ever seen
I'm sure many people would be ready to help us

I took time to present in french the all history of the game
Check this out

dotwhoo

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:19 am

Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 1

I am also looking into Horizons at this time, the game seems very interesting!
I am deeply saddened that this game has been left to fend for itself, with a dying community and such due to the takeover last year! Ever since then it seems our interest has dwindled! With a plethora of newer games coming online it seems that we will have many choices before us! Although we must move on, I am glad to see that there are still people who are committed to making a new virtual world, a world in which we will be able to truly form a nice community like we had here, truly, our world, once again!

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dhw

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:41 am

Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 2 Location: The Netherlands

It is quite clear that there is a power of passion in this forum. Kepp it simple and stand for what you you believe in .
David

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Hayreddin.7th

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:05 am

Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 1 Location: Malaysia

New guy here and sorry if this probably the poorest introductory post ever done in VCA's history. But please allow me to state my views.

Let's get a few things out of the way:-
1. I'm not a coder. Had minor training in C++ but nothing more back 5 years ago but I am an avid MMORPG fan/player.

2. Having said that,I'm ready to be classified into the lowest ranks of value in VCA's definitions of a member.But I'd like to point out that being a fan and an experienced player of mostly Asian based titles, I know which titles that needs saving and only the only ones that really needs to.Ones that can add value and precious knowledge resources to the cause from either technical and social standpoints.Not simply because I want to add free enjoyments to freeloaders.I'm sure that the Free Software tenets are more far reaching than that.

3. I'm one of those guys who can blow the horns or provide write-ups through blogs to spread the word, without the tendencies of skewing or misrepresenting facts because I'm not one to get easily burned from flames and I'm a pacifist at discussions.

To cut a few things short, let's explore/tackle a few more issues here:-
1. Raph Koster's VCA coverage's episode.
I'm sure that by now as located in a thread just a few rungs below this 1, regular forumers here are more than familiar at what I'm trying to arrive to.It seems that our good Mr.Koster had unfortunately and successfully (to certain degrees) at the same time, managed to paint an inaccurate picture of what VCA was trying to achieve from that previous 'Free Ryzom' project.

IMO.. I don't see any correlation whatsoever between Raph's misconstruing the social contract by broadbrushing its legibility to blanket still-operating and profitable MMOs to saving what's evidently Ryzom's near imminent death at the time? His dismissal by his somewhat uncalled for crude usage of the term 'participatory democracy' and having tied that to his 'argument' that VCA's efforts may promote freedom of grey shards in such a generalized tone needs a more upfront and vocal (for lack of better terms) counter actions.

2. Re-energize the forums please.
Clean up the forums again by removing redundant threads and start posting new stickies to tell us what to do? Should we start researching for more MMO titles? (Trust me..You won't believe that there are actually ones currently in "donations" mode these days; ie.Rubies of Eventide).What's the preset standards/requirements to get a title listed? Stuff like that...

Well that's all that I can pry out of my head through my fingers at the moment, I'm sorry but there's only so much that a newbie can do.

Looking forward to see some official responses in this thread/matter.

Keep up the good work guys and oh..the same for BAW projects! :)

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Windwalker

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:11 pm

Joined: 17 Sep 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Cornwall UK

I really don't think it should be given up that easily, to me thats whaty makes these communities great, the way people all work together.

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jkvoka

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:11 pm

Joined: 20 Sep 2007 Posts: 1

Aprak wrote:

And in general that this business of everyone, at all the ideology. 8)

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Cayle

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:49 pm

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 79 Location: Germany

For those who never read Raph’s blog post:
http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/12/virtual-citizenship-association/

It’s been a while since I read Raph’s blog entry about the VCA, but IIRC he has a point. One problem with participatory democracy in virtual worlds is that it hands the decision making power a clueless constituency that does not have the long term interest of the community at heart. Players generally don’t understand the whole, holistic ecosystem of a virtual world, but only see things from the perspective of their own selves. They regularly propose “improvements” that would destroy the world they love. The creators of a world - the people who put the sweat into birthing it – are the ones with the greatest interest in the health of the world and its community as a whole. Operators need to listen to players, but just as importantly, need to know what to ignore. In short, they need to be benevolent dictators; or benevolent oligarchs in the case of committed open source teams.

And for all the “don’t give up” talk, people were quick to lose interest when they realized that it would take a lot of hard work over a long time. Pontificating does not make things happen.

So yes, I’m doubly cynical. If players showed a greater inclination to put the sweat equity in, it would be very different.

I still think that development is a better way to go than buying an ailing world. Most commercial worlds are built on engines that the world operator only licensees, but does not own. Dark and Light is built using Bigworld for example.

Things are still progressing, slowly.

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recentcoin

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:19 pm

Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 55

Those of you that know me realize that Cayle is far more diplomatic than I am. I tend not hold back what I'm thinking and also tend to have all the tact of a Sherman tank. What that means in layman's terms that anyone within 50 feet of me usually knows exactly what I'm thinking.

When I see aionbr, Windwalker, Buzzard, stryder57, Tathar, summerdragoness, jaimela, Fridlekh, Milandra, dotwhoo, dhw, Hayreddin.7th, or jkvoka slinging code, making graphics, writing dialog options, or generally helping out with Build A World, THEN and ONLY THEN will any of you be entitled to an opinion. And, yes, I *am* calling you out. Consider it a challenge and surprise me by not living down to my expectations.

Regardless of your skill level, there is *something* that you can be doing. Even if you're not that good at graphics, you could at least make furniture or rocks or something. If you're not that good at writing, you can least write merchant dialog. If you're not that good at coding, you can at least help with the documentation. There's about a million things that need doing and so far I've not seen huge hordes of volunteers willing to help out because - *gasp* OMFG - it requires some effort.

Basically, I'm really tired of hearing what *we* need to be doing. I don't see how any one can say "we" unless you're one of the ones doing the work. I can say "we". Cayle can say "we". Han can say "we". Daraknor can say "we". Edward can say "we". PlaneScape can say "we". Perago Tempus can say "we". Most of the rest of you *cannot*.

If you're not willing to invest some sweat equity, STFU because you don't get a vote. In some places if you want to eat, you have to work. As far as I'm concerned, if you want a voice, do some work.

Harsh but there it is...

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Cayle

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:40 pm

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 79 Location: Germany

pssst - dhw is a spammer. ;)

Some of the other posters are recent joins. To them, I give an invitation to head over to BaW and fire things up.

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recentcoin

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:55 pm

Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 55

I'm still waiting for the flood of volunteers who all want a game and who are actually willing to contribute something besides either hot air or bitching. We'll be done that much faster if *you* pitch in and help.

Good thing I'm not holding by breath.....

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achilles

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:10 pm

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 1

Just dropped by these forums after reading the Ryzom boards.

recentcoin: You hit the badger right on the head. I myself have coded a few games (nothing mainstream/big), and I can agree that it's very annoying to hear people whine about having updates or something when they contribute nothing to the project. Props to you for voicing that.

In regards to a free Ryzom; I totally would love to see that happen. Ever since beta, I was dying to be able to make a game like Ryzom, or even be able to work on the game itself. 1-man teams don't really make games like this, though. ;) If it goes free, I hope to be able to assist in making the game better, and fixing things that Nev/GF never did bother with.

recentcoin

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:33 pm

Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 55

Achilles,

You have no idea how badly I'd like physically abuse the "aren't we done yet" crowd at times. The man hours that go in this are the same no matter if you have a 200 person full time paid dev team cranking away for months, or 6 guys in basement cranking away in their spare time. It's still 416,000 man hours (200*52*40) per "year" of dev time for the 200 person team. It takes 6 guys a *lot* more calendar days to hit that same 416,000 man hours.

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fergald

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:32 am

Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 2

yes lets go for it.

fergal.

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recentcoin

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:04 pm

Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 55

If you're game, you're welcome to join us. The links are in my signature.

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dtownburg

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:49 am

Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 1

Very Cool info.

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tomelloso

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:34 pm

Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 2 Location: Tomelloso

I want to continue.

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juanin

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:48 pm

Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 1

I want to continue

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sayad

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:34 pm

Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

i think i wud go for it too

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