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| Xavier Antoviaque |
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:48 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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Hello,
I have bad news this time. Our offer has been declined by the court.
At the end, there were three offers presented, and the other two were bigger than our's. They are keeping more employees than we do, and offer more money. We should get the details of the other offers soon, so I should be able to tell you more then. In the meantime, I'd like to personally congratulate the winner, Gameforge, and I wish them good luck.
Now, what do I think of the current situation? That we have lost a battle, but not the game. |
Last edited by Xavier Antoviaque on Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Xavier. |
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| BlasterCalm |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:52 pm |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 78
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| nicklinn |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:53 pm |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
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It was a noble battle and well fought. On behalf of myself would like to thank you for your valiant work.
Best of luck,
Nick |
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| valentin |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:37 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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for my part this story is to be continued until we succeed in freeing a mmo.
in order to go further we now have lots if interrested people to speak with, proposing money or knowhow, to build a proposition that could be interesting for a mmo owner.
so please keep in touch, this story is just beginning and will shurely end up nicely.
valentin lacambre |
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| quim.rovira |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:58 pm |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Barcelona
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No time to complain.. we just have to wait for feedback from gameforge to know which direction the destiny of Ryzom is pointing..
On another hand, the MOST wonderful thing is how this situation has brought together many voices to work for what we consider a common cause. For me, this is a "Congratulations, everyone for such a nice effort", and not a complain for what might have happened instead.
*goes away to wash out blue feeling with beer* |
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Free as in Freedom - More power to the players |
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| frakel |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:32 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
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This was not a defeat! Instead this whole process has been a significant victory for the free ryzom campaign. We got more than 170.000 euros in donation pledges! Amazing!
So we didnt get to buy Ryzom, but at least it seems to be in good hands now.
(Im confident Gameforge will continue to develop the game and take care of the world of Atys.)
But what a statement we made! This is not just ´old hippies´ trying to by their pet game - this was a first step down the path of tomorrow. One that will be remembered. |
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| bouncer |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:39 pm |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Spain
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| We did not own the rights of the game in any moment so we did not loose anything. Instead we took advantage of the chance that was present, and more chances can be there in the near future. Only we decide whether to be in conditions to confront that new opportunities or not. |
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| Olivier |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:42 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Unfortunately, i must admit I do not share my colleagues' feeling.
Defeat would not leave such a bitter taste in my mouth if I felt the battle had been fought fairly. Despite our best efforts - and we tried *hard* - we were consistently ignored by both the administrator and the liquidator. We were repeatedly given inadequate information and were not even notified of the final hearing. We never had a chance of presenting our project : neither to the liquidator nor even to the juge.
The whole thing reeks of partisanship.
I hope Ryzom will prosper under its new ownership, but I really fear the worst. Nevrax had deluded itself into thinking it could keep Ryzom running with a high burn rate. It looks like the delusion lives on. May I be proven wrong.
I apologize to everyone here, to all of you that shared this dream of a "Free as in Freedom" Ryzom. I so wish we could have brought it back to you and made it a reality. We failed, but it is not for lack of trying. Here, I need to tip my hat to both my partners who did a brilliant job and spared no effort. We fell short but we came a long way and we have nothing to be ashamed of.
I have been living with the dream of a Free Software persistent world for seven years now. I did not give it up the first time I lost Ryzom and I have no intention of giving it up now.
It's time to get back to work.
O. |
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| doctormo |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:00 pm |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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| It was a good attempt, now we need to figure out where to go from here. |
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| Neije |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:07 pm |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
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Quote: We were repeatedly given inadequate information and were not even notified of the final hearing. We never had a chance of presenting our project : neither to the liquidator nor even to the juge.
Is that normal ? I mean if you were not notified or anything then the jugment is not valide ? This seems really odd to me. |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:15 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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Neije wrote: Is that normal ? I mean if you were not notified or anything then the jugment is not valide ? This seems really odd to me.
We don't know yet, we'll need to have a look at the proposals and procedure documents to make sure everything was done properly. |
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Xavier. |
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| acidtest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:19 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Too bad !
Nice job, though ! (I know, it does't compensate for losing)
But it seems Ryzom, was out of reach for us on both grounds : jobs saved and value.
No regrets !
Quote: We don't know yet, we'll need to have a look at the proposals and procedure documents to make sure everything was done properly.
Well, i would be surprised we could have a claim case. If our proposal was not competitive with others, it is quite normal (even, if not polite) that we were kept off the race |
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| quim.rovira |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:27 pm |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Barcelona
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Xavier Antoviaque wrote: Neije wrote: Is that normal ? I mean if you were not notified or anything then the jugment is not valide ? This seems really odd to me.
We don't know yet, we'll need to have a look at the proposals and procedure documents to make sure everything was done properly.
+/-1
I don't think a legal study on the case is worth the try.. well, maybe yes, but we should try not to be obstructive and (for example) try to get the judge to review everything and keep the actual situation frozen unless we got a really good reason. :)
Indeed, I think as previously stated, that this project has been home for very good things, and so, I do believe deep in my heart that we must go on with the project.. most of us love ryzom, but all of us loved the ideals behind the project. |
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Free as in Freedom - More power to the players |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:33 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Germany
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| There will be other candidates in the future. Perhaps one already exists; e.g. AC2 if Turbine would be winning to be bought out of the rights. If not, a candidate will turn up sometime. Patience is required. |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:43 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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acidtest wrote: Well, i would be surprised we could have a claim case. If our proposal was not competitive with others, it is quite normal (even, if not polite) that we were kept off the race
That's what I think too, even if it would have been good to at least hear what people have to say, but well. We'll look at the other proposals anyway, since it's good to understand the details here. |
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Xavier. |
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| KIAaze |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:21 pm |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 70
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Do you think Gameforge will make Ryzom available for free (free as in free beer in this case) thanks to advertisments, like they do with all their browser-based MMO games?
(ogame being the most successful one)
The Ryzom community wouldn't appreciate that I guess... :roll: |
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Let's save Seed!!!
Runestone's website (the creators of Seed) |
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| Narf |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:36 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 42
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i don't think a mmo like Ryzom has the same cost as a php game.
Imagine, if Gameforge need more advertisement than there is on their php games! Where will they put it?
A mmo is not really suited for advertisement i think... |
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| KIAaze |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:47 pm |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 70
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Well, there are more and more commercial games with ingame advertisments...
(cf splinter cell and SWAT 4)
The problem is that if the game is made available for free, there will be more SMS speaking people in the game... ^^
[private joke for french roleplayers]
I can already see the advertisments:
"Buy Durandil swords! The sharpest and strongest swords in Atys!"
"Gorzine laundry detergent! Wash away bloodstains in no time!" ^^
[/private joke for french roleplayers] |
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Let's save Seed!!!
Runestone's website (the creators of Seed) |
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| kanapee |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:33 am |
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Finland
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Until this point I just have been following this project, not participating in it myself, but this made me react. So I certainly think that this should not stop here, and I will be supporting this project as much as I can. (Sadly, I can't help too much, but even much small help will get a big thing going, so...)
What should really be done now, is planning for the future. What should happen now? I think the chances are low for getting gameforge to open the source, but still, every possible chance is still a chance, which should be taken, at least when you have nothing to lose.
I hope the future will be brighter, but already watching this project grow has been amazing. When 60 000 was reached, this really took off like wildfire. Next time I checked it was already at a bit over 100 000, and that if something is potential! |
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| sfb |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:27 am |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Location: Minnesota, USA
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I want to extend what kanapee and a few others have said. Hopes of getting Gameforge to open Ryzom are pretty slim. But a significant effort has been mounted to open Ryzom and if you believe the ryzom.com forums its mostly Free Software people. If this is true why don't we help the Free Software movement?
The engine that runs Ryzom, called NeL, is already open-source. I know a lot of people from IRC are going to say I sound like a broken record, but if not Ryzom then why not NeL? One of the things that the community was struggling with Nevrax for was more access to code that utilized NeL.
Maybe, since I'm sure Gameforge has put forth a significant amount of money both in legal fees and in the purchase of Nevrax/Ryzom, they'd be willing to recoup some of those costs by selling us a portion of the engine and allowing us to open that up.
Nevrax had a package they called "MMORPG Skeleton + Tools" which was the essential content editing tools and the core server logic required to create an MMORPG with NeL. It gave nothing proprietary to Ryzom away. I propose that, if nothing else, we approach Gameforge regarding this package and open it up and found a new Free Software community around NeL - something they're most likely going to walk away from anyway. |
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| KIAaze |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:32 am |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 70
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I don't quite understand.
Is the NeL engine open-source or not?
Why do we have to approach Gameforge regarding this package?
Or are the NeL engine and the MMORPG Skeleton+Tools package two different things?
I read somewhere on the forum that the documentation for the NeL engine is not very good.
So that might already be something we could work on if we plan to make a new MMORPG.
(can be done parallel to creating a new game with it of course) |
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Let's save Seed!!!
Runestone's website (the creators of Seed) |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:44 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Germany
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| Is this "MMORPG Skeleton" the server side of the equation? A server is a highly nontrivial undertaking and is really THE thing that would have to be bought or created. NeL is also tied to DirectX, which does not make it a good candidate for a open source MMO movement. CrystalSpace and OGRE don't have this problem. |
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| jason.stover |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:56 am |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
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Cayle wrote: NeL is also tied to DirectX, which does not make it a good candidate for a open source MMO movement.
NeL isn't tied to DirectX... See the NeL3D Docs.
-J |
Last edited by jason.stover on Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| louppatient |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:20 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Cayle wrote: Is this "MMORPG Skeleton" the server side of the equation? A server is a highly nontrivial undertaking and is really THE thing that would have to be bought or created. NeL is also tied to DirectX, which does not make it a good candidate for a open source MMO movement. CrystalSpace and OGRE don't have this problem.
Tha way I read http://www.nevrax.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=NeLPackagesDescription, this package has a server (else you won't be able to run a sample shard out of the box ;) ) |
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| Kervala |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:34 am |
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Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 210
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| I agree with sfb, "MMORPG Skeleton + Tools" package in open-source would be great :) |
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Cédric OCHS / Kervala / Xiombarg |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:08 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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Location: Germany
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jason.stover wrote: Cayle wrote: NeL is also tied to DirectX, which does not make it a good candidate for a open source MMO movement.
NeL isn't tied to DirectX... See the NeL3D Docs.
-J
Sorry, my bad. I was mixing up Nel and Nebula Device. :oops: |
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| sfb |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:04 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Location: Minnesota, USA
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[quote=Cayle]Is this "MMORPG Skeleton" the server side of the equation? A server is a highly nontrivial undertaking and is really THE thing that would have to be bought or created. NeL is also tied to DirectX, which does not make it a good candidate for a open source MMO movement. CrystalSpace and OGRE don't have this problem.[/quote]
I'll address this three ways, but I know other people have already answered parts of this.
1) MMORPG Skeleton (closed-source) provides the tools and a number of implementations related to modules in NeL (open-source) that we (the community) do not know how to use. Additionally it does a lot of the leg work for things such as keeping all of the services involved in your server synchronized. This would be a huge win, since these are the issues that Free Software games struggle with or (as is more often the case) simply do not implement to their detriment.
2) NeL is not tied to DirectX... directly. NeL was developed using OpenGL and DirectX support was added after the first public beta when massive problems with ATI video card performance was uncovered. NeL completely abstracts the "video" API - it even does it well enough that you could use OGRE with NeL. It is true, however, that the DirectX driver is a much more modern implementation, as they implemented lessons learned during the creation of the OpenGL driver.
3) OGRE first and foremost is not a game engine and NeL is not just a 3D engine. Whenever you compare OGRE to NeL you're comparing apples to oranges. I cannot rail on this point enough - OGRE is a phenomenal graphics engine but that is all. CrystalSpace has a long long way to go. They've finally seen the light and redesigned their 3D engine but it's still a little clunky and slow.
But I do agree that the MMORPG Skeleton package is highly non-trivial code. It is the kind of code that my group has struggled with "perfecting" for years and I'd consider us a pretty typical open-source project. Seeing how the pros do it would help generate a lot of independent knowledge and thought. Additionally it'd serve for a launch pad for many MMORPGs to come. |
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| mildred |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:05 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 52
Location: France
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And as i am very interested myself in Crystal Space, I would like to say that it lack of a network plugin. So you have to do it yourself :(
But, except this issue, Crystal Space and the Crystal Entity layer seems to be a very good and complete 3D engine. |
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xmpp:[email protected] |
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| augmento |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:26 pm |
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
Location: South Korea
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low to no cost tools for making MMO's are out there.
If no one has mentioned them before, here are the 3 best options in no particular order
http://www.realmcrafter.com (65$ US) I have a smell demo of this running on server now. the min client can be downloaded from http://www.augmenton.net big button at top that says 'GET'
http://www.mydreamrpg.com/ This is an add on kit for the Torque Game Engine so you have to buy both for approximately (200$ US)
http://www.multiverse.net tools are free to download, you host on your own server but all billing is handled through them and they take a cut
i would also recommend hanging out at http://mmorpgmaker.vault.ign.com, a community of independent online game makers
I, for one, would be more than willing to collaborate with just about anyone on making a game. |
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| kiba |
| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:00 pm |
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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augmento wrote: low to no cost tools for making MMO's are out there.
If no one has mentioned them before, here are the 3 best options in no particular order
http://www.realmcrafter.com (65$ US) I have a smell demo of this running on server now. the min client can be downloaded from http://www.augmenton.net big button at top that says 'GET'
http://www.mydreamrpg.com/ This is an add on kit for the Torque Game Engine so you have to buy both for approximately (200$ US)
http://www.multiverse.net tools are free to download, you host on your own server but all billing is handled through them and they take a cut
i would also recommend hanging out at http://mmorpgmaker.vault.ign.com,
a community of independent online game makers
I, for one, would be more than willing to collaborate with just about anyone on making a game.
Most of these links reek of proprietary softwares. Bad idea. They are not great options in my mind.
I prefer the Ryzom community focusing coding an MMORPG, using Free software libraries and tools to do the job when necessary or help the process of making such MMORPG>
I definitely would not mind if the Ryzom community decided to purchase Free software tools to build an MMORPG. I doubt that there are any such tools as it is impractical to sell Free softwares. |
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| RedOctober |
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:49 am |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Quote: Most of these links reek of proprietary softwares. Bad idea. They are not great options in my mind.
My thoughts exactly, and that's the real issue I have with them. |
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| augmento |
| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:23 am |
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: South Korea
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/shrug you can purchase license to access the source code and collaborate. so, while i agree that they are not open source i disagree that open source = free. if you use open source and don't donate, contribute or otherwise pay for it then you are a parasite.
The low, shall i say, trivial costs associated with the software i linked are why i suggested them. The fact that you didn't bother to go to them before pronouncing judgement says a lot about your mindset.
There have been several open source attempts at MMO engines. Egos and the interdependencies of the aspects of making an MMO have defeated them all. The best possible chance is to buy source and make it free. |
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| ddade |
| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:02 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1
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| I have not tried it, but http://www.planeshift.it seems to be pretty cool. I think it's GPL'ed except for the artwork. Anyone actually considering doing a game from scratch might want to look at it. |
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| Annaleewee |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:30 pm |
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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Really cool! I like it. [Sorry, my English is bad :oops: ]
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Anna |
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| Katriell |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:22 pm |
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 26
Location: GMT-8
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| Yay for necroposting... x) |
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| recentcoin |
| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:26 am |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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