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| nils |
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:12 am |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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Okay, I took a look. It's pretty bad - there is a lot of name-calling, people calling ryzom.org anything from a bunch of unrealistic dreamers, to swindlers and scammers. From my first impression I would definitely recommend Xavier to get a lawyer involved. There are libel and slander laws, and Neverax seems to violate them (esp their senior game master, . I am not a lawyer, hence my recommendation that you get one. Also, if there ARE any issues we - as the young ryzom.org community - should be aware of, then it may be a good idea to be upfront about them.
That being said, I will still try to sway opinion over there. At the very least I cannot stand the misconceptions these people have about the open-source/free software/whateveryouwannacallit community. |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:04 am |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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nils wrote: That being said, I will still try to sway opinion over there. At the very least I cannot stand the misconceptions these people have about the open-source/free software/whateveryouwannacallit community.
Well, just be careful about remaining calm in the middle of the flamewar; flames have a tendency to make people camp their opinions, so a peaceful discussion, even under attack, would be more beneficial to everyone. And don't try to push too hard on arguments; if something doesn't convince others, it's either because the argument isn't good or because the parties are just trying to bash the other one. If there are points like that, just ask around (here, on IRC, etc.). While there are things I'd have liked to answer, I can't post on the official boards since I have been forbiden do so by Nevrax when I asked to, and I'm going to respect that.
Also, to the people only discussing on the official board: do not hesitate to come to the ryzom.org forums to discuss things you don't like about the project. Perhaps there are things where no solution can be found, but this is a community project, and your opinion is as valuable as anyone else opinion here; you may have spotted problems we would rather solve now than later.
It could be your project too, if you wish so. |
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Xavier. |
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| KIAaze |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:37 am |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 70
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Xavier Antoviaque wrote: While there are things I'd have liked to answer, I can't post on the official boards since I have been forbiden do so by Nevrax when I asked to, and I'm going to respect that.
Why would they forbid you to post on their forum?
I tried to register but got this:
Quote: We're sorry but registration is limited to Nevrax customers. Please login with your Saga of Ryzom account and password to access the forums. -Thank you.
I don't know if you have a Ryzom account, but if you have, you should have the right to post on the forum, unless you were banned. |
Last edited by KIAaze on Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Runestone's website (the creators of Seed) |
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| quim.rovira |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:19 am |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Barcelona
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As Xavier said, don't flame the forums. We've got answers to most if not all of their questions, and it's good to have seen some of you explaining our points of view.
Consider it a question-answer thread, in any case, not a place to say things in the line of "you're dumb cuz you know nothing and I know it all", since that takes nowhere. Most posts in there clearly denote they have not even read the social contract nor the project faq.
Anyway, I recall a previous poll started by me (http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27461) on the ryzom.com boards about open source as a last possibility in case noone bought the game.. 26'87% opposed to that and would rather see Ryzom dismiss, showing a great love for the game. |
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Free as in Freedom - More power to the players |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:53 am |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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KIAaze wrote: Why would they forbid you to post on their forum?
A part of the reason is internal to Nevrax, so I can't explain it now, but the other part is the fact that I have been an official at Nevrax in the past, and the fact that it would only feed the troll. |
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Xavier. |
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| Aprak |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:25 pm |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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quim.rovira wrote:
Anyway, I recall a previous poll started by me (http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27461) on the ryzom.com boards about open source...
It's quite interesting how the polls show so very different results.
Could it be that the word "free" is confusing people? Perhaps someone should write down in laymen terms what it means, and in particular in ryzom.org's case?
I get the feeling that people are constantly confusing free (as in free beer) with free (as in free speech). One thing that seems to bother (assuming the word is interpreted as gratis) is the obvious logic of not being able to run the the game from a cost perspective.
Maybe ryzom.org should put up a simple scenario of how it could work (including the continuous charge for using the servers)? I.e. a business model.. (I know it sounds funny, but I think there's no better name for it).
I think many would appreciate to see that there is actual thought behind all this and that it could really work. The "New plan proposal" just doesn't seem to cut it (or people didn't read it).
Some of my best friends are among those fumbling in darkness and it's just rips my heart in pieces to see them worried... |
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/Aprak
http://cea-history.blogspot.com/
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| nils |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 pm |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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| I am not flaming anybody. Trust me, I have better ways to spend my time. Like sleeping... Sweet, sweet sleep (sorry, long day). However I am usually frank. And I still think you should take that post from their senior GM (what was the name, soulsharder or something?) serious, he's basically calling you everything short of a murderer. ;) |
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| nils |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:59 pm |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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KIAaze wrote:
I tried to register but got this:
Quote: We're sorry but registration is limited to Nevrax customers. Please login with your Saga of Ryzom account and password to access the forums. -Thank you.
I don't know if you have a Ryzom account, but if you have, you should have the right to post on the forum, unless you were banned.
You have to sign up for one of the free game trial accounts. That works as the account to post on the forum as well. |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:32 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 396
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nils wrote: I am not flaming anybody. Trust me, I have better ways to spend my time. Like sleeping... Sweet, sweet sleep (sorry, long day). However I am usually frank. And I still think you should take that post from their senior GM (what was the name, soulsharder or something?) serious, he's basically calling you everything short of a murderer. ;)
No problem Nils, no one was targeted by these remarks; it's just a reminder that we do not want to alienate ourselves from people, just explain them what we do and seek.
I personally think there are good points on both sides, and that the conversation would be more fruitful if it was more calm. |
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Xavier. |
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| BlasterCalm |
| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:53 pm |
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 78
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Sometimes, the more we try to convince people and to reinforce our point and the more we inflate the flame war. Let's just not answer the provocations and try to be as factual and honest as possible.
Replying to each little argument, however wrong it might be, just strengthens the fact that we are not ready to listen to "them" and gives "them" more arguments against "us". (I put quotes because for me we all belong to the same Ryzom community, even if we disagree)
It is impossible to convince people if you're attacking them. Some of them just don't want to be convinced, and propably they have their own agenda as well.
I tried to do my part in this "debate" but frankly after a while you just have to let it go... |
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| nils |
| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:52 am |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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| In the end it's not the community's decision anyway. We will either win the court over, or not - this is a matter of "money talks", I am guessing. If we do win (I still have my doubts, but hey who knows) then we can still prove to them that we can run a decent game. |
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| Aprak |
| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:10 am |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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BlasterCalm wrote: ...Some of them just don't want to be convinced, and probably they have their own agenda as well.
I think you're right... Lets all just put a sock in it for a while shall "we"?
"We" made out point clear and everyone now knows where to come seek for further information. Choosing not to is freedom also, and in a "funny" way strengthens "our" point methinks.
P.S. I don't like this "we" and "them" thingy either... D.S. |
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| nils |
| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:55 pm |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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We -> The people who are discussing it here.
Them -> Depends on the situation, usually the sceptics.
Goal -> Unify the two.
Next steps -> Just wait for the court's reply before wasting too much energy.
;) |
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