Good and bad news - ryzom.org forum archive

An archived topic, merged from 5 captures made between 12 March 2008 and 21 June 2008. ryzom.org · Forum index · All captures

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< Ryzom.org General - English ~ Good and bad news

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:46 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

Hello,

The bad news: yesterday, the Paris commerce tribunal ruled that Ryzom should go to Spiderweb, for 213.000€ ($324.000) without giving us a chance to bid.

The good news: the liquidator has confirmed there has been a mistake during the procedure, he should have informed us. We can thus attack the decision, the liquidator is proposing to restart the procedure from scratch if we offer more.

The issue is that, right now, we don't have enough to make such an offer.

Details

At the end of last month, we received a mail from the second liquidator, telling us to reach the first liquidator; it meant the fight between the two liquidators was over or soon over. We thus sent an email and a mail to the liquidator, to warn him we would want to make an offer.

The procedure is then to wait to be contacted by the liquidator, who tells everyone when the offer should be sent. Aside from waiting, Géraud (the lawyer who follows the case for us) was contacting the liquidator directly, who was on holidays until yesterday. Thanks to Sashimi, we learned that the court audience just happened, and we had to make a deal with the liquidator to avoid being discarded.

The issue now: the offer we have to outbid is very high: we would have to offer at least 230-250K€, and Spiderweb (SpiderWeb International Limited, W1W 6NS Londres, 5th Floor 26-28 Hallam Street, not the American gaming studio) would have the opportunity to increase its bid, which is already too high given the current circumstances. There are no more employees, no servers, a large portion of the player base has already moved on to other games, and we don't know if we would be able to get the server data including the characters).

We are currently evaluating solutions, we have until tomorrow to have a great idea. If you have one, be sure to post it here.

_________________
Xavier.

Motamid

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:16 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

I don't have any break through ideas, but I'd sure be willing to double my previous pledge. An extra 26€ isn't much, but if everyone were to double their previous pledge we might be able to make it! I have donated via the old donation page.

I don't care if it sounds naive or right out of It's a Wonderful Life. I prefer to be optimistic.

NuageBleu

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:25 pm

Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 1

Hi!
I agree the bid is too high. I guess that, once again, they will give up and sell the game, possibly for a much lower price. And this will be the time where we'll take the right action and buy it.
Sorry, I'm not willing to increase my donation.
Thanks for the work, keep us informed!
Regards,

Belenn

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:39 pm

Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 25

I myself wouldn't care much for server data or characters, but I'm certain others would, or would even see that as the top priority.

In my opinion, the real asset is the artwork (written on paper as well as the digital graphics, music, sound FX etc.). Even the source code is nothing that couldn't be remade eventually.

Considering the age of most pledges, the time frame over which they were collected, and that we would still be some 50k short of what we'd need, I don't see much hope apart from my conviction that the next commercial owner will fail as did the last, so we can still be around for the third auction :evil:

Sad, disappointed, yet still hopeful...

nils

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:48 pm

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Frankfurt, Germany

First of all: Who is this Spiderweb International? It seems a little weird, I can not find them with a very quick google search. (the ones that pop up seem to be unrelated.)

Is their offer binding? I mean, obviously the situation has changed a lot, and Gameforge has actually damaged the property by letting it slip into bankruptcy for the second time. The reduced player base, loss of developers, etc, is a big deal if you actually intend to continue Ryzom commercially. It seems unfair to hold Spiderweb to their original bid. And I think that they (Spiderweb) might very well not be interested anymore. Has this been checked into? Is there a chance for checking into it? If Spiderweb is merely interested in buying into the technology, then maybe a deal could be reached with them - ie they could contribute money to our project, and in turn get a copy of the codebase to do with as they please. Wouldn't hurt us, and they'd have a codebase they can change without being limited by the GPL. I seriously doubt the arts assets are worth all that much now. They're definitely showing their age.

IF Spiderweb's offer is binding (which I can't believe, but you never know what weird laws may say) then they might actually be happy if we offer to challenge the procedure, and give them a chance to get out.

If we are given some time then I *think* we should be able to raise 250k, it's risky but it may work. Either way we must be very careful. If we call for donations again, and nothing comes of it, then we're the guys who cried wolf, and will not be given a third chance.

That said, I am still willing to contribute cold, hard cash, as well as however many man-hours I can spare for the project, if there is some specific task for me to do (that I am qualified for).

_________________
http://nils.jeppe.de

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:14 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

nils wrote:

First of all: Who is this Spiderweb International? It seems a little weird, I can not find them with a very quick google search. (the ones that pop up seem to be unrelated.)

I can't enter details without making an accusation which does not rely on actual proofs, but I (and others) consider Spiderweb as a shell company, made by some people that used to be close to the game.

Quote:

Is their offer binding?

They have actually made a new offer, which is bigger than the one they made in December 2006.

In any case, we are trying to contact them now. If anyone gets any clue (contact, ties with other companies, etc.) on Spiderweb, that could help a lot.

_________________
Xavier.

nils

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:35 pm

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Xavier Antoviaque wrote:

They have actually made a new offer, which is bigger than the one they made in December 2006.

Mh, I can't really see how this makes sense. Someone with some financial knowledge please explain to me how the value of "the assets" has increased. No more employees, thus less expenses? To me it really would seem that the value of the whole package is actually less now than last year.

_________________
http://nils.jeppe.de

Damon

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:02 pm

Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 1

I would be willing to increase my pledge to $200 US, but that is only a small piece of what we would need. It would probably not be in our best interest to go too much higher than the spiderweb offer; if they are prepared to counter-offer, perhaps it should be their job to attempt a revival and risk any financial loss that may result. Just my thoughts.

Edward

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:52 am

Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 32

I just increased my pledge. I think many others would be willing to increase their pledges as well; it might be worthwhile to send out an email.

Negotiating with Spiderweb seems like a good idea, if it's possible to get in touch with them. I don't know how we could contact them, though.

nils

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:07 am

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Frankfurt, Germany

I found this, you'd have to pay to read the actual documents; but just reading the history doesn't impress me much. If I am correct, strike-off means that the company was in the process of being de-registered, but my understanding could be wrong.

_________________
http://nils.jeppe.de

kyos

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:48 pm

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 3

the solution is simple, every one of us should play euromillion on wednesday...

no seriously,i will explain it in french because it is very precise and i don't think i have enought vocabulary in english to explain it.

Si le tribunal a en effet fait une erreur en ommetant de nous contacter , il semble qu'il y ait vice de procedure, je ne suis pas assez calé en droit français pour le comfirmer, mais peut etre que l'un d'entre nous , ou un site juridique peut nous aider dans cette recherche d'information.

si il y a vice de procedure, cale impliquerais de tout refaire? hors je doute que la justice ait envie de tout recommancer, que veut spiderweb? le programme ou le matériel?
de quoi avont nous besion? du materiel? du logiciel?

serait il possible de prouver ou de suggerer fortement que spiderweb a été avantagé par rapport a nous de façon volontaire? ce qui serait un autre vice de procedure, bien plus grave je pense.

Il doivent le savoir , ne peut on alors les pousser a l'arrangement? recuperer nous ce dont nous avons besion, et leur laisser le reste?

je pense qu'un arrangement a l'amiable doit etre envisageable.

il faut creuser le droit français pour savoir ce que l'on peut réclamer dans ces cas la.

surtout ne pas laisser le dossier se refermer, il doit bien y avoir des juriste dans vos connaissances...

posez la question a un cabinet d'avocat, a titre gratuit, il y en a bien un qui va vous répondre...

le droit français est tres pointu mais dispose de plein de failles...

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:00 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

kyos: we have a lawyer following the case. We can contest the judgment, and we even have an agreement with the liquidator to redo the process. The issue, however, is that we would loose if we reopened the case, unless we can make a better offer. We have looked at all the possible cases and ideas from this forum, and the only sensible solution we see is to deal directly with Spiderweb. This has little chance to work, but still a lot more than coming to the liquidator with our current offer - even if we were to ask for more pledges in the meantime, or even ask for real donations. :(

_________________
Xavier.

billie2

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:18 pm

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Mexico

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/

Seems this answers close to what people were asking..
They seem to package games for sale.. but still curious what they plan on doing with Ryzom...?

Maybe just use the packet server type etc.etc.
starting it from scratch...?

no idea..:(

Osquallo

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:28 pm

Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 164

It's not the same society that your link .

_________________
Osquallo, Chef de la ronde des menestrels

Katriell

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:31 pm

Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 26 Location: GMT-8

Osquallo wrote:

It's not the same society that your link .

In other words, SpiderWeb Software is based in Seattle and SpiderWeb International is based in London.

Osquallo

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:34 pm

Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 164

Quote:

(SpiderWeb International Limited, W1W 6NS Londres, 5th Floor 26-28 Hallam Street, not the American gaming studio)

_________________
Osquallo, Chef de la ronde des menestrels

Gilmar

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:06 pm

Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 5

Also is SpiderWeb International Limited UK connected with
the SpiderWeb Iternational Limited of New Zealand:

http://nz.vicdir.com/comdetail-827794775-91743-0.htm

Of course in the satellite picture, the company is located in someone's
house.

Something seems really shady in this business.....

_________________
Gilmar(Aristople)

Irgendwer

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:22 pm

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 4

Gilmar wrote:

Something seems really shady in this business.....

Indeed. :?

The only thing I was able to find about them was this:
Some page regarding credit-worthiness or whatever.
http://www.creditgate.com/companysearch/SPIDERWEB+INTERNATIONAL+LIMITED.aspx

My english isn't perfect, but that list got it's fair share of liquidation.

Additionally, it's extremely easy to found a Ltd. company...
with as low as 1 Pound base capital.

:?

#Edit:
That link someone posted earlier.
https://secure.creditgate.com/search/search.aspx?AP=Full%20Non-Limited&CompanyID=05049109&CompanyType=L&BS=1&BT=Full%20Data
Creepy.
Looks actually like they were in the progress of deregistering, but stopped to (try to) buy Ryzom (again).

KIAaze

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:33 pm

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 72

How many people are on the mailing-list?
Just to get an idea about how much money could realistically be collected...

_________________
Let's save Seed!!!
Runestone's website (the creators of Seed)

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:27 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

KIAaze wrote:

How many people are on the mailing-list?
Just to get an idea about how much money could realistically be collected...

1900 emails are currently registered on the mailing-list.

_________________
Xavier.

Thom

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:39 pm

Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

I'd be willing to up my pledge.

Do we have any concrete information on who this company is, or are we still speculating that its a shell company made in 2004, ironically the same time Ryzom came out, and is now trying to secure the remaining assets...

I just don't want to see this game die - its too good for that.

Even if the engine is outdated, the vision is still there, and in my opinion is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.

I think that Ryzom would soar if it did two things that Nevrax or GF failed to do.

- Marketing, marketing, marketing (nobody knew about it)
- A development team that listened to the player base, and implemented frequent and consistant fixes/updates/changes

Yes it will take some money to get the ball rolling, but when those two things are done properly, players will come, along with money, and the game will have the funds to expand, and develop, and improve.

I am the first to admit that SoR had its share of problems with bugs, and unfinished content - but the dream and the vision and even the existing content was unparalled in my opinion.

Osquallo

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:17 am

Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 164

Quote:

I am the first to admit that SoR had its share of problems with bugs, and unfinished content - but the dream and the vision and even the existing content was unparalled in my opinion.

It's the opinion of many player , who hope that this dream will live again.

_________________
Osquallo, Chef de la ronde des menestrels

Thee

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:53 am

Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 2

KIAaze wrote:

How many people are on the mailing-list?
Just to get an idea about how much money could realistically be collected...

Well, previous statements indicated that VCA had one day to come up with an offer. So, that window of opportunity has been missed anyway.

Xavier, are there any news to share regarding the contact? Have you guys been able to contact them by now? Or are you, just like everyone else, facing problems contacting (or getting information about...) them?

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:55 am

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

Thee wrote:

Xavier, are there any news to share regarding the contact? Have you guys been able to contact them by now? Or are you, just like everyone else, facing problems contacting (or getting information about...) them?

Same problem here, they probably don't want to be contacted right now.

_________________
Xavier.

Belenn

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 am

Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 25

Xavier Antoviaque wrote:

Maybe too late, but since I haven't found the thread he spoke of, here's a quote from http://forums.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31953

xt1t4nx wrote:

To Whom it May Concern,
I have posted a direct thread on Virtual Citizenship regarding the purchase of Ryzom, in order to bring this wonderful game back to life. I have located an investor that will fund (In full) the investments and expenses of source code hosting, rights, and all current ownerships of the game Ryzom. I was previous a player of this marvelous MMORPG, and miss it more and more as each day passes. I have decided to make this my personal objective in bringing this game BACK! I would like nothing more than for someone to contact me regarding the purchase of Ryzom or any information that would assist me in getting in touch with the right people. My contact information is listed below:

(Simply put: If you want Ryzom back, get me in the door and I can make it happen)

Thanks,

Desmond Scott
Cell: [phone number removed]
[email protected]

nils

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:35 pm

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Gilmar wrote:

Also is SpiderWeb International Limited UK connected with
the SpiderWeb Iternational Limited of New Zealand:

Almost certainly not related.

It's not like "Spiderweb Whatever" is a very original company name.

_________________
http://nils.jeppe.de

vernes

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:49 pm

Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 15

50 euros from me. tell me when you want it. (and where the paypal link is)
Keep in mind, paypal freezes accounts (and its money) if it raises too much money in a short time.

Jizerah

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:34 pm

Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 79

According to Companieshouse.gov.uk Spiderweb International Limited´s Officers are:

1. Secretary: W T Secretaries LTD, 5th Floor, 26-28 Hallam Street, London W1W 6NS
2. Director: Benoit Faure (french), The Regency, 23 Palace Court, London W2 4LP

There is/was only one shareholder, Sean Lee Hogan, Flat 4 BLK B Christine Complex,
Amathus Avenue, Limassol 4531, Cyprus, holding one share in the amount of 1GBP! :twisted:

Hekla

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:27 pm

Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 95

Well, that would be getting somewhere at last. I take it you had to purchase the info, Jizerah?

Are some of the old-timers on VCA acquainted with Benoît Faure?

It's somewhat reassuring to me that he's in the MMO business, and has been for a while (most posts by/mentioning him are on Italian MMO websites, somewhat dated). Hopefully he'll give us his intentions soon, but his profile appears to be that of someone looking for a gem of a game, and not just a graphics engine...

*crosses fingers*

_________________
And then, there was Hekla. And she had perfect teal hair. And she was glad.

Jezabel

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:50 am

Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 170

You can check this link for a detailled resume :
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/a06/1a4

Benoit FAURE should have strong links in the game market.

_________________
Jezabel / Toro / Ulrick IRL

Riveit

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:36 pm

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 1

Jezabel wrote:

You can check this link for a detailled resume :
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/a06/1a4

There is no guarantee that this is the same M. Faure, as far as I have seen. Misidentifications can prove embarrassing.

Jezabel

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:05 pm

Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 170

I think, he's the good one because :

- he has worked for Cryo during the "Deuxième Monde" experiment. This game created in 1997 was the fisrt French MMO.
- he has worked for CTOnet, which was the fisrt company to open a MMO server for DAoC in Italy.
- he's actually a Sales Director in a big Luxury Goods & Jewelry industry. I think he can easily manage a 200K € offer to buy Ryzom.

There is very very very little chance that another Benoît Faure with his experience in the MMO game industrie and capital managment exist.

_________________
Jezabel / Toro / Ulrick IRL

paperBag

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:06 pm

Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

So where does all of this leave us right now? Are we just giving up and hoping SpiderWeb whatever will do something good with Ryzom? If we still have the time to outbid, then we need to get cracking. It doesn't matter how impossible or improbable it may seem; we CAN raise the money, we just need some creativity.

I'm assuming that being given the chance to still bid applies only to us because they screwed up, right? Then there's no longer any worry of getting competing offers if we were to start making some noise? I know we'd been concerned about that. If so, then that's what we should do in my opinion. Raise hell! Get the word out that the community is trying to purchase and revive our game (once again), and let people know we NEED their help! We will NOT let another Gameforge buy OUR game and run it into the ground! Who's with me!? On your word Xavier, should the Yubo army advance?

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thee

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:00 am

Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 2

paperBag wrote:

So where does all of this leave us right now? Are we just giving up and hoping SpiderWeb whatever will do something good with Ryzom?

Well, well, well...

To my understanding the VCA or whatever you'd like to call it was given the chance to make an offer within a day or so. This was quite a few days ago, so I guess you are right... we are currently awaiting Spiderweb Internationals first action. ;)

Well, maybe something is going on behind the scenes... Xavier might have been able to reach them with all the information provided here, but really... in the end it seems to be up to Spiderweb right now.

teylini

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:24 pm

Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Reno, NV USA

I will increase my pledge to $200 USD.

Xavier Antoviaque

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:03 pm

Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 442

Thee wrote:

Well, maybe something is going on behind the scenes... Xavier might have been able to reach them with all the information provided here, but really... in the end it seems to be up to Spiderweb right now.

No, sadly, nothing new on my side. The attempts to contact Spiderweb gave nothing, they don't appear to be willing to discuss atm.

_________________
Xavier.

nils

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:06 am

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Frankfurt, Germany

I say let them try. The game is dead anyway, what's the worst that Spiderweb could do? Buy the thing and shelf it in the basement and nothing would change for us.

_________________
http://nils.jeppe.de

valshiran

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:22 pm

Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 1

I could probably donate about $500 USD. I really would like to see Ryzom live on. I've been playing a few other games, but they just aren't very good.

Thaxlssillyia

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:15 pm

Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 18

Rumors are spreading quickly: There has been a status change on the liquidation. Anyone around who would like to contribute? Or even knows more about it?

And yes, ryzom.com + .de forums are obviously down since this morning. Coincidence?

Moonlightmist

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:01 pm

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 6

Thaxlssillyia wrote:

Where did you hear about the change on the liquidation?

I tried to get onto the forums but they are down, however arispotle.yubovision.fr is up and you can post there.

_________________
Moonlightmist
High Officer of the Knights Leviers

Thaxlssillyia

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:12 pm

Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 18

It's a rumor. Secifically it is about a change of the "Kennzahl" (id?) on some website of the Liquidator. I did not include detail as it is obviously not very accurate and translated too many times.

Moonlightmist

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:14 pm

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 6

Thank you, now I just need to find the liquidator's site again :)

_________________
Moonlightmist
High Officer of the Knights Leviers

Kaetemi

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:11 am

Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 61 Location: Lembeek, Belgium

something's changed...

Quote:

domain: RYZOM.COM
reg_created: 1999-11-08 12:11:03
expires: 2008-11-08 17:11:03
created: 2000-07-22 06:29:02
changed: 2008-06-16 15:35:32

Quote:

domain: NEVRAX.COM
reg_created: 2000-01-27 11:05:31
expires: 2009-01-27 16:05:30
created: 2000-07-17 13:59:03
changed: 2008-06-16 15:30:28

_________________

Celtris

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:54 am

Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 2

Hello all , thank Kaetemi.

Good news ! I hope :roll:

_________________
Seize the time, live now, make now always the most precious time.
Now will never come again.

ulukyn

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:06 am

Joined: 04 Oct 2007 Posts: 117

chat.ryzom.com is unactive.
Maybe one of changes of yesterday.

To use Klients you can change the klients.ini in Klients directory and relace chat.ryzom.com by 87.106.16.2.