| |
| Author |
Message |
< Build A World General ~ Building from scratch - step 1 - defining objectives |
| sdahan |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:33 am |
|
|
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Tsukuba, Japon
|
[1] Introduction
Some people says that building a MMORPG from scratch is an enormous task. I disagree. In python, I can probably make a 2D MMORPG that support at least 1000 users on common hardware and a DSL line in less than 10 days. The catch: bad graphics, no sound, no animation, a tiny world and an ugly interface. Let's say, even if I build it, I will never play it because it will be too bad.
On the opposite, if we want to make a MMORPG that compete with the other MMORPGs on their strong points: good graphics, good variety of mobs to kill. Then the task is impossible. We do not have several millions of euros to pay an army of graphists.
The truth is doing another MMORPG like the others is not possible. I do not think that a open source game can work by following common commercial sens. I think that it is important to think about the open source MMORPG concepts before rushing into the programming phase or choosing a graphical engines.
The aim of this post is to open a discussion about what we can do and what we should do, then to define some common technical objectives. For the moment, we should avoid to think about how-to implement the different propositions but about how the game should be.
[2] Defining our strength and weakness.
We have:
- programmers motivated to build a new game
- programmers that like resolving difficult problems
- role players that like creating new background
- role players that can make good stories
We do not have:
- people who know how to do good looking models
- people to create music, sound and avatar animation
- money
[3] Defining player liberty
The first choice is how easy it is to add new things in the game. Total liberty is cool, because if I want a new hat for my avatar, I just have to create one, and, abracadabra, I can use it. The bad part is that some children will use it to show off with avatar that have enormous genital organs. My opinion about this question is that big nude dicks are just a small inconvenience compared with the benefit that anyone can add its own graphics and the children will be quickly banned from serious community.
Another question is how easy it is to add some new area. We can design a multiverse where every body can add its new world that can contradict the other, or do we make strict rules in the aim to have a unique and consistent world?
[4] Leveling and grinding?
Does the game involve a leveling process or not? Personally, I can not find any good reason to include a leveling process with xp in the game. But I should be an exception because so much game is based on leveling. Thus, there should have some fun on the leveling process.
However there is several advantages to not implement a leveling process. First newcomer do not need to spend six months killing zombies before being able to play with high level character. The other is everything about cheating and bot to leveling quickly will pose no problem.
Personally I am for creating a social game without character levels or need to farm resources for a long time but to find new way to play a MMORPG.
[5] How about graphics?
I think that it is not reasonable to try to get graphics who are similar to the other game. We can accept a game with average and bad graphics or we can try to find a way where it is easy to make good looking graphics.
For that, we can make a game where graphics are easy to make like a spaceships game. I have no experience in 3D, but I already design several spaceships with a 3D program or directly in OpenGL and it is not difficult. On the other hand, drawing something that look like a living being is far too difficult for me without taking about the animation.
An other solution is to find an original style that is hard to screw up with. Manga, south park, and the seed game mentioned here http://www.ryzom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=173 are examples of style, but their are to easy to screw up.
Does someone is interested by the defy of creating this new style that always look good?
There are probably also lot of choices to make regarding the 3D engine, but I can not list them because of my 3D illiteracy.
[6] Centralized or distributed servers?
This is a tough question. Should we must centralized everything on few expensive servers or do we build a peer-to-peer game.
Every body understand the notion of a server that control everything, so I am going to explain the distributed programming concept and related questions.
The aim of distributed computing is to distribute task between several computers. For example, when you chat, every message is send to a server that forwards them to the other players. The server is a bottleneck: if it is not quick enough, it has effect on everybody. In a distributed solution, you do not send the message to a server but you send it directly to the players.
advantage:
- no server bandwidth is necessary for the chat system because the server does not receive or send any message.
- if A say something to B, the program can send each character separately when A is typing its message. Thus B does not have to wait that A types "enter" to read what A is saying. This is possible because without server, ther e is less need to limit the bandwidth consumption.
problem:
- it is easy to know the address IP of someone.
- the server can not censure messages
Another point is about monsters. With a centralized server, the server manages every monster. So, big computers are needed because if there is lot of players, then there is lot of monsters that are fighting.
In a distributed version, the administrator can tell which computer control the monster. So important one can be managed by the server to avoid cheating, when small ones are controlled by the player computer (exactly like when you play mono-player games) or controlled by another player computer.
[7] Conclusion
We can not create a game if we do not have objectives and we can not get the good technical objectives if we can not take into account every possibility, our strength and our weakness. So, I count on you to add more questions and give our opinion about what has been said. Then, it will be probably possible to make some choice and start coding. |
_________________ Sylvain Dahan |
|
| Back to top |
|
| vernes |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:15 am |
|
|
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
|
| We're actually looking for a design platform where we can share plans. idea's and such. We've set our first goal to be a decent whiteboard system and design platform where we can share and interact with eachother's design. Also we've set up a svn site. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Aprak |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:05 pm |
|
|
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
Sdaham, I agree in almost everything you say (except perhaps the problems) :)
I've been following the discussion's on these forums lately with great scepticism to be honest. Personally I'm not interested in buying a software (Ryzom was an exeption because I love it so much) just to maintain a shitload of somebody else code. I do that enough in professional life thakyouverymuch :)
(Note: I really don't mind if others do though, and I speak only for myself.)
Bazaaer, multiverse, full distribution, no authority - we think alike.
People will ridicule you for you optimism and for your ambition, but i will certainly not. Tons of games not succeeding is really not proof of anything, and I personally don't care what others say.
Your ideas sound very interesting to me. |
_________________ FREEEEEEEEEEEDOM!
/Aprak
http://cea-history.blogspot.com/
http://kato.homelinux.org/~aprak/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
| doctormo |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:45 pm |
|
|
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
|
Games are interesting, 3D games doubly so. I find that once the open source world has attracted a certain set of professionals then it gains this ground.
See for example the explosion in 2D graphics, icons, GUI, wallpapers the list is endless of users who are using the open source tools and giving their works back to either public domain such as open clipart org, or a cc license.
We're starting to get far more serious music people, the software on that front is still in development though.
The 3D realm is an interesting one, with the advent of Quake and ID engines it's allowed both the non professional to become proficient trial and error and also allowed professionals to work on new platforms that the tools didn't exist on before.
I don't believe graphics will be a problem, we have ways of programming such problems out of existence; enough users get good enough, attract enough novice modelers and have good peer review and anything is possible.
Don't think that just because it costs a company millions to produce a game that we don't have millions of worth sitting in our heads and in our hands. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Agone |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:05 pm |
|
|
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 181
Location: près de Lyon
|
graphics do matter in a game's success, even if it's open source...
honestly, will you play a MMORPG just because it's open source ? nonsense !
to succeed, a game has to be eye-catching, with nice 3d graphics and no eye-hurting pixel (ouch, that really hurts :p) |
_________________ --Agone-- |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Han |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:42 pm |
|
|
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
|
I have close ties to a lot of people who mod battlefield series in thier spare time. The series is getting old, support has never quite been there. Our little community numbers in the hundreds and has some of Battlefields best Modders IMO. All I have to do is ask and I think these guys would be very interested. Most are on the flip side of people here.
Modelers
Sound people
Artists
Mappers
AI scripters - scripters in general
Tools Coders
So I think they can fill the void and they do it as a hobby and have for 3-4 years but have stagnated not likeing the Battlefield2 lack of support.
I'm gonna run the idea by them and report back with feedback. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Han |
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:14 pm |
|
|
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
|
| Posted in the forums, waiting to see... probably have some idea on the general concencus within 24hours :) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| sciboy |
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:23 am |
|
|
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
|
Woah wait a sec, go back to the 2d python game.
If you can provide the right 2d game engine and in-game editor I'd be ready to produce all the animations and assets for you and i know plenty of others i could drag in to the mix too.
What we would require is a game platform with an in-built editor. the more flexible, the more content we can provide.
Essentially what would be ideal is a customisable "camera" ala. most point'n'click adventure games but taken a step further.
For example you're in the overworld, it could be isometric, enter the bar near by, it switches to a point of view from the corner of the room, you go up the stairs it switches to a side view that pans when you come close to the edge. etc. etc.
Now the reason i suggest an in-game editor is my friends would be all over this if they would work on an area at the same time, not necessarily the same room, but have little sessions where they can chat, check what changes or progress some one else has made and even contribute assets to a particular scene some one else worked on. Pretty much, a wiki but 2d. =P
How ever the one thing that'd probably be a good idea is at some point allow for 3d characters, with those changing viewpoints some world builders would probably want it.
So, yeah? Up side to this whole thing is 2d is a lot easier to pick up than 3d, and it only takes me an hour to speed paint an environment. By providing flexibility people could produce many different styles of games and instead of forcing to produce specific things like an object at this angle, have fun approaching it how ever they want. =)
Not to mention you'd get lots of attention for being the first of it's kind, scripting for puzzles etc. would also be pretty important but with the promise of easy content creation you could expect exploration and mystery to keep people pretty darn busy while the project progresses. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Cayle |
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:52 am |
|
|
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Germany
|
sdahan wrote:
[3] Defining player liberty
The first choice is how easy it is to add new things in the game. Total liberty is cool, because if I want a new hat for my avatar, I just have to create one, and, abracadabra, I can use it. The bad part is that some children will use it to show off with avatar that have enormous genital organs. My opinion about this question is that big nude dicks are just a small inconvenience compared with the benefit that anyone can add its own graphics and the children will be quickly banned from serious community.
Another question is how easy it is to add some new area. We can design a multiverse where every body can add its new world that can contradict the other, or do we make strict rules in the aim to have a unique and consistent world?
Are we defining a world or a framework for multiple worlds (translation, a build your own MMO kit)? If it is the latter, it could be left up to the individual world. A social world thrives on player creation. A game world, where there is even a shred of competetiveness between players, needs to control that.
sdahan wrote:
[4] Leveling and grinding?
Does the game involve a leveling process or not? Personally, I can not find any good reason to include a leveling process with xp in the game. But I should be an exception because so much game is based on leveling. Thus, there should have some fun on the leveling process.
However there is several advantages to not implement a leveling process. First newcomer do not need to spend six months killing zombies before being able to play with high level character. The other is everything about cheating and bot to leveling quickly will pose no problem.
Personally I am for creating a social game without character levels or need to farm resources for a long time but to find new way to play a MMORPG.
I could not agree more. Look at large worlds with levels and a grind. They have eBay aftermarkets where people buy high level characters. Essentially, it is paying to avoid the game. If it is worht paying for to avoid the leveling up process, perhaps that leveling up process wasn't so great to start with.
I may also be in the minority. Its perhaps better to entirely decouple the ruleset from the framework for this reason.
sdahan wrote:
[5] How about graphics?
Sadly, graphics are needed. The best gameplay in the world wont even be tried if the graphics are poor quality
sdahan wrote:
[6] Centralized or distributed servers?
This is a tough question. Should we must centralized everything on few expensive servers or do we build a peer-to-peer game.
Every body understand the notion of a server that control everything, so I am going to explain the distributed programming concept and related questions.
The aim of distributed computing is to distribute task between several computers. For example, when you chat, every message is send to a server that forwards them to the other players. The server is a bottleneck: if it is not quick enough, it has effect on everybody. In a distributed solution, you do not send the message to a server but you send it directly to the players.
advantage:
- no server bandwidth is necessary for the chat system because the server does not receive or send any message.
- if A say something to B, the program can send each character separately when A is typing its message. Thus B does not have to wait that A types "enter" to read what A is saying. This is possible because without server, ther e is less need to limit the bandwidth consumption.
problem:
- it is easy to know the address IP of someone.
- the server can not censure messages
Another point is about monsters. With a centralized server, the server manages every monster. So, big computers are needed because if there is lot of players, then there is lot of monsters that are fighting.
In a distributed version, the administrator can tell which computer control the monster. So important one can be managed by the server to avoid cheating, when small ones are controlled by the player computer (exactly like when you play mono-player games) or controlled by another player computer.
Allowing client side decisions is a bad idea. The server designer should always assume the client has been haked. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| mmx |
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:50 am |
|
|
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 16
|
sciboy wrote: Woah wait a sec, go back to the 2d python game.
If you can provide the right 2d game engine and in-game editor I'd be ready to produce all the animations and assets for you and i know plenty of others i could drag in to the mix too.
What we would require is a game platform with an in-built editor. the more flexible, the more content we can provide.
Essentially what would be ideal is a customisable "camera" ala. most point'n'click adventure games but taken a step further.
For example you're in the overworld, it could be isometric, enter the bar near by, it switches to a point of view from the corner of the room, you go up the stairs it switches to a side view that pans when you come close to the edge. etc. etc.
Now the reason i suggest an in-game editor is my friends would be all over this if they would work on an area at the same time, not necessarily the same room, but have little sessions where they can chat, check what changes or progress some one else has made and even contribute assets to a particular scene some one else worked on. Pretty much, a wiki but 2d. =P
How ever the one thing that'd probably be a good idea is at some point allow for 3d characters, with those changing viewpoints some world builders would probably want it.
So, yeah? Up side to this whole thing is 2d is a lot easier to pick up than 3d, and it only takes me an hour to speed paint an environment. By providing flexibility people could produce many different styles of games and instead of forcing to produce specific things like an object at this angle, have fun approaching it how ever they want. =)
Not to mention you'd get lots of attention for being the first of it's kind, scripting for puzzles etc. would also be pretty important but with the promise of easy content creation you could expect exploration and mystery to keep people pretty darn busy while the project progresses.
You might try this, if you're wanting to work on a 2d MMORPG, as it could at least provide an excellent basis:
CFPlus - Crossfire+ MMORPG Client
It's a pretty good game, although it really could use a hand with more and better graphcs. The engine is already done, and it's already open and customizable. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Zero_effect |
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:33 pm |
|
|
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 4
|
I personally don't agree that it is so essential to have great 3d graphics when we talk about MMORPGs because there are some very ugly games, like UO, which are played by a lot of players around the world.
The levels, weapons, monsters, quests, etc. - that is the essential part of a MMORPG. There must be a lot of hard to achieve goals which the players could take - this makes the MMORPGs so addictive. So I don't think that a social/roleplaying game would be so popular like for example another high quality hack&slash roleplaying game.
That is my opinion. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Han |
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:23 am |
|
|
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
|
We have to be careful going down the 2d road, it may be trendy to go back to games like Monkey Island, "Out of this world" or a side scroller. Yes 2d can be fun. However, we start to compete with a flood of games that are being developed under XNA by microsoft. See gametrailers.com
Personally I feel a 3d world is more engaging. Thats just my view.
We could even do a combination of 2d and 3d... some zones one way others different.... As in "who framed Rodger Rabbit"
So nothing is out of the works, but lets start with a core idea that can be expanded. Start small get something working as a demo perhaps.
my 2cents :) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| sdahan |
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:31 pm |
|
|
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Tsukuba, Japon
|
Few remarks.
[1] About 2d/3d
2D games can be attractive in short terms because they can be created quickly. But in the long term, they lack the flexibility of 3D games. Just look a the number of cloths/weapons that you can use in 3D games compared to 2D ones.
[2] about graphisms
Good graphisms is useful to attract newbees but average graphisms is enough for me. At a side note, my two favorite games (NeverWinter Night and Dawn of War) are reputed to have under average graphisms.
But my initial question was not about if we need good graphisms or not but on how to easily make a system where unskilled user can draw good graphisms.
[3] about security
Cayle, you probably did not understand points [3] and [6].
I know and understand the following citation from Richard A. Bartle "Important: Absolutly no decisions with regard to what happend in a virtual world can be delegated to a client. No decisions. That's no decisions".
But, not everything need to be linked to the virtual world. Sandbox like Ryzom Ring is an example, changing the graphisms of the avatar is another. Of course, changing the avatar can give an advantage to the player in some game by making him invisible for example. Their is two ways to protect against that:
- player can not change their avatar
- write the name on the top of every avatars, taking into account that the player can use unexpected graphisms and finally punishing deviant.
I prefers the second solution.
Quote: Are we defining a world or a framework for multiple worlds
In a commercial game, everybody have to listen to the boss or to be fired. But this is an open source project. We can not be a big team and be able to control everything at the same time. We need to take this particularity into account from the beginning.
Quote: Allowing client side decisions is a bad idea. The server designer should always assume the client has been haked.
I know that but I prefers to say that the user have complete control of its computer. By the way, I do not find the relevance of this remark. Try to reread section [6] and try to understand "important [monsters] can be managed by the server to avoid cheating, when small ones are controlled by the player computer (exactly like when you play mono-player games)".
By "(exactly like when you play mono-player games)" I consider that the player can play in god mode if he want. God mode is a pain for common MMORPG. But if our game has no leveling up process, where is the problem? |
_________________ Sylvain Dahan |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Han |
Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:06 am |
|
|
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
|
I think we are all seeing the same big picture, every time I read posts here I say "yes..yes!" more than "no...no!"
We're at the beginning and I think we all know nothing gets done if a group can't communicate.. so I think we need some of the following based on previous posts...
[1] A whiteboard/chat system and a couple scheduled times to talk per week
[2] A "Client(s)" and a "Server(s)" and most likely "Tools" sub-forum to keep posts focused.
[3] A Portal with upload space to trade tools we make (sourceforge?)
[4] If we grow we will need a seperate IRC channel
Hannon |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| OlmS |
Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:25 pm |
|
|
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
|
[5]
about graphix
I think that there is enoegh of diverse sources for good quality gfx providers around for the task here ... As Han said, modders can join from other games because of the liberty and community special to this project, as well as lot's of gfx students that often have good skills but not much possibility to demonstrate them in good conditions ... often the skilled people find a job in an advertising company or so and never do "monsters and co" again .... and student keeps their skills for school classes... this could become a common blackboard for "apprentice gfx artists" (provided we manage to filter also what is good for the game and what needs more work... judgment is always difficult task).
I also think that author rights should be rewarded in monney for quality providers, and that some sort of "general licence" could be made with a fee for the contributors to the games, permitting a core group of developpers to be seconded by independants studios wich will "work for real" on parts of the game .... that is a way to extend in the future the core group also with good and longterm content providers, that take the game for serious and that works for passion (but needs money to live)
about music
Lots of musicians are already publishing very good tracks on creative commons licences (on community sites like http://www.electrobel.be for ex.), this should be explored as a special channel for them to release and make them known, as it is now used for some in 2nd life .... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| barometer |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:41 pm |
|
|
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
|
As I see it, this group has a good ideas. If something is going to happened we
need some key decisions makers & project leader ( section ). In my opinion
KrYoS, Han seams to be the right kind of people to lead the development
of this future project.
Maybe we should consider to act and make a vote ?
I think that many of us want's this, to take one steep further...and make
something of this before it falls down to nothing. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| KrYoS |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:53 pm |
|
|
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
|
barometer wrote: As I see it, this group has a good ideas. If something is going to happened we
need some key decisions makers & project leader ( section ). In my opinion
KrYoS, Han seams to be the right kind of people to lead the development
of this future project.
Maybe we should consider to act and make a vote ?
I think that many of us want's this, to take one steep further...and make
something of this before it falls down to nothing.
Honestly, I think you give me too much credit. We do need key decision makers and a project leader however, of that there is no doubt. Helping flesh out many ideas and such I have no problem helping with that, but being a project leader, I don't think I would do very good at that, as my time is truly limitted, of course, any volunteer's time would be limitted to what they can offer in their free time. I suppose I could setup a quick website for the exact purposes needed if someone wanted me to. It would be a quick toss together for the sole purpose of being able to keep all things on track and keep everyone focused on the main goal of the project, or rather, give a place of collaboration which is direly needed.
These forums are decent for the moment however, since the discussions haven't arisen beyond a point of no return so to speak. But once that point of no return has been reached, a true place for every person who helps will be needed where control for us is in our hands, and we are able to bring about it's versatility to the needs we have at the time. I am all for going head on into a project and being as helpful as I can be, but a single person alone can't do a whole lot, it is something that needs to be brought out and agreed upon by the whole that has instigated this course of action.
It can be brought to bare in due course. An MMORPG is not an impossible task. It is a struggle no doubt that will be frought with aggravation and frustration, but it is through these things that one must trudge along, for the grass is always greener on the other side. And once the trudging is done, and there is something to show for the efforts put forth, then the exclamaitions of joy shall arise. I know, I sound like I'm philosophing, which in essence I am. It's all a basic philosophy anyhow in the end. It is a mindset that must be made. Either you are in it for the long haul, or you depart and cause chaos in your departure.
Sure, the chaos can be quelled and put out, but it will still leave an inner chaos in everyone else just dying to burst out and respread it's seed over everyone else.
Strong leadership is indeed the most dire thing needed. Without that, the reins on those below may easily get out of hand, and then who knows what could happen. A vote on leadership may be a good thing, but then it could be a bad thing as well. As more often than not, votes are usually a popularity contest in this sort of thing, and not necessarily a contest of who is more qualified or capable. So I can't really condone using a vote for that reason alone.
A proposition to bypass the whole vote idea though isn't one I can't think of off the top of my head in passing, so for now that is truly the only course we have that is semi viable, though not always the greatest. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| barometer |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:15 pm |
|
|
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
|
Quote: Strong leadership is indeed the most dire thing needed. Without that, the reins on those below may easily get out of hand, and then who knows what could happen. A vote on leadership may be a good thing, but then it could be a bad thing as well. As more often than not, votes are usually a popularity contest in this sort of thing, and not necessarily a contest of who is more qualified or capable. So I can't really condone using a vote for that reason alone.
Agree with U on that one, let me rephrase it...what about the Round Table concept then, it's know to work. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| KrYoS |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:21 pm |
|
|
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
|
| The round table concept has been known to work, that I can't argue. But unfortunately with the round table concept decision making takes longer, and a lot of good ideas are shut down by those not wanting change and what not, so the voice of popularity is still the one heard. In all honesty, there is no perfect way to make solid decisions as a whole. Polls can be manipulated and so on. I know, I'm pessimistic but sometimes it is the way to be. I honestly think in an open source world though, the round table concept would be conceivably the best method to go with, and any major decision making topics left to a poll of the entire team. But that's just me. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| barometer |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:30 pm |
|
|
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
|
This is 4 all of you to think about on this subject, how would the Linux kernel
look like if Linus Thorvald didn't have Vito on the decisions, on what was to be &
what wasn't going to be included in the kernel.
My opinion is that one man leadership, is the right solution to this project. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| KrYoS |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:43 pm |
|
|
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
|
| It just may be the right solution. I have not said yay or nay against it honestly. Myself, I'm just timid in this aspect as I am definitely new to this community here since I just signed up on the forums like a day ago, something like that, so I do not know how the community will react, so instead, I toss out different things to think about as well before choosing. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Cayle |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:27 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Germany
|
| I’d go for the roundtable solution for a couple of reasons. Firstly, this whole thing is still too new to have a feel for who is competent and who are the leaders and who are the passionate people who consistently step in and guide things when the forums die down. Secondly, while a strong leader can keep the ship afloat after it has been at sea for a while, a consensus approach might be needed to get going. A would-be leader can easily alienate the rest of the team if they have not yet established credibility. If our goals are not too deep and we aim at the broadest solution possible, the consensus approach may be suitable. |
_________________ Project Angela - Team Lead |
|
| Back to top |
|
| KrYoS |
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:32 pm |
|
|
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
|
Quote: I’d go for the roundtable solution for a couple of reasons. Firstly, this whole thing is still too new to have a feel for who is competent and who are the leaders and who are the passionate people who consistently step in and guide things when the forums die down. Secondly, while a strong leader can keep the ship afloat after it has been at sea for a while, a consensus approach might be needed to get going. A would-be leader can easily alienate the rest of the team if they have not yet established credibility. If our goals are not too deep and we aim at the broadest solution possible, the consensus approach may be suitable.
I agree with that myself, as I have stated upon some of that as well. Right now, I think in the next week or so, I'll see about getting together a location on the web were we can all meld ideas and whatnot in a different environment that is our own. Though it is easily able to be said that the free Ryzom project is what instigated our wants to do this, it is also a good idea to distance from it as well in the way that we do not utilize it's medium to express our thoughts and wants, as it in my opinion seems tacky. But I can easily get something working well enough that we can use that, unless someone else already has a new living location or whatnot to utilize. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Cayle |
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:24 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Germany
|
It might be good to do a couple of things:
1- Have everyone post in a designated thread, what their own vision is. Think about how you would describe it. Try to be concise and readable for others.
2- Somehow from this, we start distilling high level requirements. Once we have a handle on that, we can worry about low level requirements (and come back to the engine discussion).
Edit: My vision… the world I want to build… ditches a lot of the traditional trappings of an RPG. There are no weapon damage tables for instance. Instead, I want to use a robust physical model and let the “rules” become emergent behavior for the most part. Instead of set weight, speed and damage ratings for a longsword, why not derive these parameters directly from the mesh and designated material of the weapon? Its mass and moment of inertia can be calculated. Use these to define the handling characteristics and damage of the weapon. I also want to use the first and second laws of thermodynamics to balance the game. |
_________________ Project Angela - Team Lead |
|
| Back to top |
|
| KrYoS |
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:43 pm |
|
|
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 50
|
| Well, since I'll be setting up forums and such to move to, I'll be setting it up in a specific manner, and giving rights to certain people to be able to create further areas for creating discussions about further topics. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|