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| Cayle |
 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:19 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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There has been a lot of discussion, both here and in other places about teams getting together to build a “reference server”. I think it is time to take this bull by the horns before the idea fades away. Already, many of the names that used to post here many times a day two weeks ago are gone. I’ll take this opportunity to formally say that Project Angela is ready to work with any other group or groups in an umbrella effort to produce a common platform with a reference server example.
To be successful, such a platform has to be both minimalist and full featured. By minimalist, I mean that no particular lore or ruleset imposes its way at the source code level. The designer of a particular world should be able to do most of their work, if they keep it vanilla, without compiling any c++. By full featured, I mean… well… the same thing ;) A carefully designed architecture can be ruleset agnostic. I’m not interested in putting effort into a “common” architecture that we’ll have to rip apart again to build our own world and I would not want to impose such a “common” architecture on others.
Since no person or group has taken the initiative yet, we will. We can work with others. We have an advantage over both the Planeshift and Peragro teams; we are still in the spec and design phase. This makes us more flexible with regard to architecture. I doubt either Planeshift or Peragro is in a position to (resource wise), or has the inclination to refine and modify their platform for general use. If any of the above teams are willing to work with us, we could take a platform and modify it. Perhaps the best aspects* of both platforms could be merged along with new development.
This is also addressed to AuroraB and any unaffiliated individuals. Guys, we’ll all get further working together. We’re willing to talk about what you want, what you need, what showstoppers would be and who is willing to do what. To this end, I’ve created a forum on our boards specifically for discussing common requirements, specs and design. Its here: http://rpg-gamerz.com/smf/index.php?board=18.0
Unfortunately, you have to register to post there. I’m afraid of what would happen if I allowed “guest” to post. I’ve seen what can happen to a forum that allows guest to post after spambots discover it. Just to be clear, we’re doing this on our forums as a way of seizing the initiative. It is not an attempt to ride roughshod over any individuals or teams. If others prefer it, we can also have these discussions on a neutral forum such as ryzom or KrYoS’. And if nobody else is interested, we'll still do it, just alone... unless I get talked into going to the dark side with Torque :shock:
* This is speaking from the aspect of an external user. The super duper, lighting fast, hard coded ruleset widget may be the owner team’s favorite aspect, but it is unusable for others. |
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The Ruleset Modeling Language - A project for making it easier to design virtual worlds. |
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| valentin |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:28 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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count me in.
refining the definition of "common platform" would help one and others to decide if they are in or not.
from a technical point of view the definition seems to involve at least
- cal3d
- crystalspace
- blender
from a licensing point of view it seems to involve
- gpl for the engine and code
- creative common or alike for the art and so
from a timetable point of view i think we should limit ourselves to something leading to a first product in a short timeframe, a 3 month project would be short enough to keep motivation, 6 month seems to me a maximum for a first start.
i'd propose an irc meeting something like friday around 7pm gmt (anytime anyday would do for me), so we can clean details after a few more days discussions here or at angela's
what i can bring to a common project is money to ease the angles (such as having irl meetings), programming and hopefully a french team.
valentin |
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| Grom |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:18 pm |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Poland
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| No, no. Only not CrystalSpace. We have many others engines. Plz, dont use this engine! |
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| Jetto |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:37 pm |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 59
Location: France
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| Yes replace CristalSpace by panda3D :P |
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| Grom |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:52 pm |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Poland
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:30 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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| For the record, I think the Cal3D skeletal animation code is cleaner than the OGRE code, but I have to ask, why is everyone always so obesessed with the graphics engine of the client? The real meat of a persistent world is on the server side. |
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The Ruleset Modeling Language - A project for making it easier to design virtual worlds. |
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| valentin |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:31 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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well, the only two teams posting here and having something working use crystalspace, so if its about working together itll be around crystalspace.
maybe this 3d engin is not ideal for some but it has been proven to be scalable enough for 300 simultaneous players by planeshift and has usable creative common 3d art made by peragro tempus.
valentin |
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| Han |
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:59 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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| valentin |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:52 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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so there will be an irc chat meeting on tuesday 8pm gmt, on #ryzom.org at chat.freenode.net.
if you dont have an irc client you can get there from this homepage, with a the cgi irc.
open talk and open meeting to meet each others and talk about possible common work.
valentin |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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| I can make Wed or Thursday. Tuesday not. |
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| valentin |
| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:50 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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so lets make it wednesday 8pm gmt.
valentin |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:02 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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For those who are interested, here is my pre-meeting review of what PA plans to do with the Planeshift server.
Edit: Keep in mind that the design is still fluid and parts of that document are already out of date. |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:59 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 442
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Cayle wrote: For those who are interested, here is my pre-meeting review of what PA plans to do with the Planeshift server.
It seems one needs to be logged to access that file, and registration requires admin approval; do you want me to put it on the FTP server (or on the wiki?). |
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Xavier. |
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:31 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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| Edward |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:58 pm |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 32
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| Han |
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:47 am |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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well I guess I missed that one, my bad.. any notes?
Hannon |
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| Xavier Antoviaque |
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:36 am |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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| Cayle |
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:36 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Germany
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The design discussions that have been taking place on PA are now visible without logging in. You still need to be registered to post. Blame the spambots.
When a central design repisitory is decided on, we'll have to come up with some mirroring or linking solution so that people don't need to run around to several places to get info. |
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| Han |
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:59 am |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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No real surprises there. I read through the whole thing. In life there are certain stances that one can make without stopping to factor in an audience. Anyhow, we should know Talads stance on art is as it is and unwavering.
<Talad> I think open art is a real failure
I'm sorry but it's not Talad. There are artists that are willing to give time to a project that interests them just as you gave time to create something you care about. It is 100% the same in every way. There are a lot of examples, but with any amount of research you can find them. I need not list various things here.
The bashing of other projects also didn't sit well with me. <shrug>
and my own take on the subject... to me coding is an artistic experience.
D3D seems very solid but I would use it in a flight sim before a "story driven" world. I'm sure it could be adapted to work though. I'm still flowing with things and seeing the concencus.
I was happy to see many of you expressing the ideas I share and I think thats whats comming out here... We all have these shared experiences gamingwise and wish to finally see them corrected.
On the subject of the GPL's, I tend to lean toward LGPL though I feel Richards heart is in the right place. I have some different views but have the same direction going on heart wise hehe.
eee late here - will continue to gear up in my own way, basicly my dev env and junk. Mmm tools!
Hannon |
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| Edward |
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:37 am |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 32
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There are people here with different viewpoints. More to the point, there are people who are not here, but who we would like to be here, who will disagree on many issues. We should focus on the issues on which we agree, not those on which we disagree.
Some people favor open art; some don't. Some teams plan to keep their worlds proprietary, while others plan to open-source theirs. But we all agree on one thing: There should be an open-source, rules-independent, world-independent game engine that we can all use to build our worlds.
Getting back on topic, I agree with Cayle about the need for a mirroring or linking solution so that everything can be accessed from one place. |
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| Han |
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:00 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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| barometer |
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:01 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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| recentcoin |
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:28 pm |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 55
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You cannot limit the definition of "art" to just the visual assets. In order to be compelling, games need to have voice assets, music, sound effects, etc.
Just my 2 cents.... |
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RecentCoin
Epoch The Game
www.magnaturris.com
Project Angela
www.rpg-gamerz.com |
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