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| Ancha |
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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Hi everyone.
I am starting this thread after having spoken to Xavier and so, having been given permission to do it.
My apologie to the French quarters for not writting it in French also. I can read but not write in French; please feel free to translate it and post. Thank you.
We are a small (just under 200) private community of dedicated and very hurt players of a game that was shelved, middle of the present year. It was a simple game, it required a lot of work, but above all it had, probably, one of the most friendly communities I have ever found in any MMO.
The game we lost was called, Blade Mistress. The legal situation was different from that of Ryzom. Players tried everything possible to keep the game going, even through personal phone calls to the person responsible for shelving it, but to no avail.
So, we found ourselves going out there looking for a substitute and found none; its a bit like the unique lover we lost forever.
I think that around a month later, I decided to be crazy and promissed everyone, to come up with a new game. A game with a similar structure, but a modern version of things, with a bettered story, better graphics and integrating all possible ideas suggested by the players. In the past, players had been asked for suggestions, but their ideas had never been added.
Anyway, graphics is not at all my speciality and I had to get down learning a couple of languages and invest in software. Coordinating that with my personal life and finding a team of people to work on the game, without a fat salary, has not at all been easy.
Our community offered to contribute funds, I did not accept, more for not wanting to impose on them but, I think that I can say that if it came to be needed, they would only gladly do so.
At the moment, I am pretty much a one man band, for only I dedicate many hours a day, to the project and am still trying to convince some people to join the project, without that fat salary.
I think that the grief of both communities, can only make us stronger, have loads more people working towards the same end, join all ideas and bring out a hell of a MMO.
Yes, I can go on alone, so can you, but if we stop crying separatly, maybe together we can get down to smiling much faster. Maybe I am wrong, but that is the reason for this post and please comment and ask. Lets see if we can meet halfway and walk hand-in-hand.
I will be here to reply and answer your questions.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Edit 2 hours later- P.S.: - I need to make it clear that the idea here, is not about asking. sharing or in any way trying to benefit of your money. What I am interested in is, to find out if both communities can maybe work together, meet halfway, join ideas, create a team, to bring out a game that will please both. So, please understand that I am not after money. |
Last edited by Ancha on Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Narf |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:05 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 42
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hi, can you post any link or document?
i'd like to make my own opinion on this =) |
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| Ancha |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:18 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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Link to the forum? If so, being a private forum, wouldn't help as access is restricted, but I can copy and post posts. I can also talk to the Admins and arrange for an admin from this forum or anyone nominated, to hbe made a member with my sponsorship.
If you are refering to the game itself, well, the webpage has vanished, but if you google it, you can still find references to it.
I hope I have answered your question and would like your further clarification. Thanks. |
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| doctormo |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:24 pm |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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| We're looking to do the same thing, but there shouldn't be need to invest so much we have a number of programmers and lots of existing code. |
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| Ancha |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:36 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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| My main concern is not investment, I rather see a team of people working together on a project. Sadly, the world revolves around money, but I know that it is possible to do things, having money as a secondary need. |
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| Han |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:33 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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Countless games will come and go. What do we want to do about it?
1) We can do nothing; investing our time and money in entertaining diversions controlled by a corporation(s).
2) We can contribute, learn and control our own fates in a direction we choose as a group.
With 1 we take the easy way out and are entertained, no harm if you can stomach the loss of time invested and chalk things up to making friends and enjoying the story. When each game dies we spend some more money and start again.
With 2 we can expand ourselves and marvel at the cleverness that each of us has to offer in a project which we can enjoy building together. We can help each other learn and become better writers, artists and programmers. Eventually we can just play on and let others entertain us as in #1.
To start we could open a thread like "available talent" where we can see who we have with what skills and time to invest in a Open source MMO. We really still don't know who we have that could possibly work on extending Ryzoms life if that eventually works out. Though I personally don't see a company that spent over 170,000 euros saying "oh yes, heres our source code..."
side note:
First time I ran into this was with Air Warrior shutting down when EA bought the game from Kesmai, 100,000 flight sim people lost their game. No persistent characters though.. just reputations - lol. Luckly the original programmers split off and started all over and today theres Aces High. In some respects similar to this situation but still not open source. |
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| Ancha |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:49 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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I undestand what you say.
Personaly I feel for players that have put in months and years of their time, building up a char/chars and then one day, all vanishes. It is frustrating and corporations don't really give a damn. Also I think that only now, companies are learning of what MMOs do represent and the potential they offer.
I made a promise to my community that, the day we couldn't keep the game going, it would be passed on to someone else. In fact I believe I mentionened the creation of a sort of "trust" for it. This, to avoid people going through the same pain, again.
Well, I have tried and not given up yet, to find people willing to work on my project. I think that both could be merged, a team could come together, people can talk and indeed come up with some greatness. I also think that we must face the truth for the future, open source or not, money will always be needed. |
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| louppatient |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:11 pm |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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I'm think I'm not the only one who might be interested ... But could you describe your project ?
Have you set a precise goal ?
How will you describe the game now, and when it will be "finished" ?
I think that's was being asked when Narf asked links or documents ...
As yet, we know 1/ the game name 2/ that you had a small community and 3/ that you have a started a project about it. That's not much ;)
The one thing I don't quite understand is the "private" forum problem.
I can not even think of commiting myself to a project where I can't even _look_ at the current discutions, or even come and say "hello" (even if it's in a restricted area only).
The trust for the game being continuated is mainly the GPL ... But you seem to include the players data as well (game accounts, ...) -which is an interesting idea-. |
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| doctormo |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:17 pm |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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the players data is owned by the player... or should be.
creative resources should be under cc
code and scripts under gpl
etc etc |
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| Narf |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:45 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 42
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louppatient wrote:
I think that's was being asked when Narf asked links or documents ...
Exactly louppatient.
Ancha, you can't be less precise than you are, and all you are asking is help without even presenting the project, how can we have an opinion on something we can't even imagine.
What are you aiming at?
What is already planned?
How will you proceed?
Who choose the major orientation if they aren't already settled?
What is the advancement of the actual project? |
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| Ancha |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:54 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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louppatient , I am sorry but it is like you are asking me if I am a virgin, even before going out with me once. Lol.
The idea of the private forum/community, wasn't mine and it came after we had a public forum. It may have been because we all wanted to have our private cry amongst friends. Having a private forum, is not a problem, it is just a place where people that played the same game, meet and discuss whatever; I see nothing wrong with that.
Anyone has access to the "account activation" thread:
http://www.bmunited.com/forum/index.php
I have stated that if an Admin or anyone named for that purpose, wants to have access to the forum, I will talk to the Admins and sponsor the person, no problem with that.
I hope and will work for the game to be at least in Beta, this year.
The name of the new game is NOT Blade Mistress. We call it OLB, but this is not to be the official name; that will be revealled at the appropriate time.
Yes, we are a small private community, yet the old "gone" game had a much largwer community, since it was launched in 2001; if I remember right.
No one has denied you access. Should you and I come to an agreement, it is more than obvious that you would be granted access. It seems to me that you are doubtful at this time. I would like you and everyone else to try to understand that, while your case went public for obvious reasons, ours had no reason or justification to go public. Thus the way both communities present themselves, may be different. I am here to try to understand your, I would like you to try to understand ours; the goal being to find a possible way of working together, or not, but lets at least try.
When I proposed the new game, soon I realised that it would have to be treated as a commercial project. Why? Well, I am not as fortunate as all of you to be in a open source minded community. Another reason, would be the costs to keep the game running for many years to come.
I am not against open source, even for this project, as long as a full team can come together and work (at least to start with) without fat salaries or salaries at all. If I can't get that team, then I will go fully commercial, get sponsorship and go full steam.
You ask me for details about the game, well at this moment in time I am not prepared to spill the beans here or anywhere. For the simple reason that it would be too easy for someone to take the idea and run, if you get my meaning.
I can tell you though that, Blade Mistress, was a game where killed monsters for loot and XP, you skiiled your chars, you had 3 classes: Fighter, Mage and Smith. One nice feature was that we could create our own dungeons, where we could skill, namely our fighters. The goals were simple, to have the highest level char, defeat the strongest boss/es, to smith the stronger weapon, to hope to get a shard. Above all, we had a great community.
Anyway, the new game takes the old principle and gives it better graphics, a better and richer story line and puts in many of the add-ons suggested by many players. In all, the aim is to make a better game, but not diverting too much from what we had.
Open source or not? At this moment in time, I don't know, I am listening. Our community doesn't care, as long as they have the game to play.
I hope I have answered some of your doubts. thanks for your time and consideration.
Edit: I came here to listen to this community and see if we could join efforts (excluding any of your money) but instead, I am being asked to give out information that, I would at this moment consider delicate, because I don't know what the future holds. Meaning, in no way I am risking the project, anyone that wants to know details, would have to have compromised and papers signed.
Anyway, I am sorry, I think I am knocking at the wrong door.
Admins, please feel free to delete all my posts and even my account, if you so wish.
Honestly, some people want to try the bride or groom, before they commit to marriage, well, it doesn't work, cannot work like that in this case. You are asking me to reveal dtails of a project, to the whole world?! Sorry, I can't, not here; it could be the same thing as giving away the biggest diamond on this planet, thinking it was just any old stone. |
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| louppatient |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:26 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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I absolutly have no problem with a private forum ... But if you ask me to go out with you, I won't if I don't know you before ;)
Before your post, we had :
- no name (only the name of the original game)
- no link
- not even the genre of the game (sci-fi, fantasy, ...). You may well have decided to transpose a fantasy game in a sci-fi setting (depending on the setting, it may not be that hard)
I think you can present it in general terms without spilling anything. Is it low-fantasy ? High fantasy ? Has it a class system, or is it skill based, or is neither (in which case you don't have to reveal exactly what it is) ? These are very broad categories, which don't tell anything specific.
For the team, I'll answer more tomorrow, but it seems we're not talking about the same thing ... It seems you consider us as _one team_, which we aren't ;)
Edit for your edit :
We're not asking you details.
You're asking if we can join forces. We say maybe, but about what ? I wouldn't be honest if I said yes without knowing to what I'm commiting myself. And I don't ask you to reveal this to the world.
But if you says "I'll only speak of the world and story under an NDA", that's an information that is interesting. And it doesn't reveal anything about the world and the story. |
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| Narf |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:18 am |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 42
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There is lot of details you can reveal without any risk, and you did it in your last post.
We don't want you to say everything about the game, we want you to present us the project.
The game is one thing, and i don't think it's the point about giving detail about it, but the project in itself, what licence will be used? what kind of development system will be used(hierarchical? democratical?...)?...
You already answered some of those important question, but i think you are mistaken, you seems to look for dev to recruit, and this community is nothing else than a community, we are not a "game-maker pool".
It's just my feeling, maybe i'm wrong by saying this. |
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| Han |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:03 am |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 34
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Quote: When I proposed the new game, soon I realised that it would have to be treated as a commercial project. Why? Well, I am not as fortunate as all of you to be in a open source minded community. Another reason, would be the costs to keep the game running for many years to come.
The world is our community and you are always welcome. So you are indeed fortunate enough. We don't deny people have to make a livelyhood, but by creating a closed source mmo you are simply joining the long line of studios trying to publish for profit. being affiliated with GNU we are looking at "copy left".. if I am wrong someone correct me. If you don't understand "copy left" or the GPL versions then please see http://www.fsf.org they are the major donator to this effort at this time.
My disclaimer is that I do not in all instances agree with everyone in the FSF... however I see the need for them and think the work they do is a boon to humanity.
A new business model involving donations could work to keep a game going, or build on a Adhoc model where servers are run by players such as Battlefield1942 or Quake. These methods have worked for years. |
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| Ancha |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:27 am |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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I am to present my apologies to you all.
Please do not consider my posts any longer, as a member of our "private community" just helped me to make my mind up. there are people that are specialists in piss. . . other people off; he has succeded. The new game will not be open source, though that, will not stop me from helping open source projects.
May I add that my decision was not caused by anything said here and I wish all of you the very best, thank you for your warm welcome and wish all a very merry Xmas ansd a great New Year.
I would be grateful if this thread was left live for at least a few days, as there is a link in our forum, so that our members can read it. Thank you very much. |
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| louppatient |
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:34 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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Ancha wrote: I am to present my apologies to you all.
Please do not consider my posts any longer, as a member of our "private community" just helped me to make my mind up. there are people that are specialists in piss. . . other people off; he has succeded. The new game will not be open source, though that, will not stop me from helping open source projects.
May I add that my decision was not caused by anything said here and I wish all of you the very best, thank you for your warm welcome and wish all a very merry Xmas ansd a great New Year.
Good luck for your project ! :)
Ancha wrote: I would be grateful if this thread was left live for at least a few days, as there is a link in our forum, so that our members can read it. Thank you very much.
I'm not admin, but I don't see why it would be removed, even in more than a few days ... And I think I can say they're welcome to come and read :) |
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